tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post2604688648082907088..comments2024-03-25T13:40:30.747-04:00Comments on Faith and Theology: Ten theses on Dietrich Bonhoeffer: theologian, Christian, martyrBen Myershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03800127501735910966noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-60162926460911074042010-06-18T06:55:42.905-04:002010-06-18T06:55:42.905-04:00How challenging are the theologial convictions of ...How challenging are the theologial convictions of Bonhoeffer! Look at this one: “The church is the church only when it exists for others.... The church must share in the most secular problems of ordinary human life, not dominating, but helping and serving” (Letters, 382). A point for honest reflection for the Church today, its leadership and followers involved in social life (politics, economics and science). People all over the world want the church to do more to address moral degeneration, to be pragmatic and confront oppression and injutice in its entirety adn with the zeal of Jesus Christ. Who is ready to do it?Godfrey Onenthonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-44783397315516171882007-07-01T10:58:00.000-04:002007-07-01T10:58:00.000-04:00A truly fascinating post. I've just started readin...A truly fascinating post. I've just started reading his prison letters. The warmth he displayed for his family and his lack of self-pity are astonishing.David Williamsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15336069872848288062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-82349941075844315632007-06-30T12:47:00.000-04:002007-06-30T12:47:00.000-04:00A grand example of the romantic spirit, ah what gr...A grand example of the romantic spirit, ah what great things can be achieved by the wholly consumed mind, to fire the imagination of prescient youth and cause it to dream of glorious death. Christ of course being the example, but how would House diagnose the malady? Surely some little parasite created this imbalance which is entirely absent from the more cautious Barth, one can understand entirely why doctors once prescribed the pipe as an effective remedy for high blood pressure and terrible passions in general. Picture Gandalf in Moria lighting his pipe a small delicate flame revealing the weight of darkness ever present which the incandescent light never really sees being too consumed by its own need to burn.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-56231371695243013102007-06-29T21:29:00.000-04:002007-06-29T21:29:00.000-04:00An added bonus to this post was that I finally lea...An added bonus to this post was that I finally learned the origin of the term "maverick." :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-36796791815738722242007-06-29T17:35:00.000-04:002007-06-29T17:35:00.000-04:00Thanks Ray for this wonderful set of propositions ...Thanks Ray for this wonderful set of propositions -- You have kept up Kim's tradition well.<BR/><BR/>Bonhoeffer has long been an inspiration to me and even when I'm not sure what to do with him I'm challenged by him. I always wonder what would have happened had he lived a full life rather than died so young. Would he have had the same influence as he has had? Of course, had he lived, he would have had the opportunity to more fully define himself.<BR/><BR/>And while I did have you for a class in seminary (Theology of the Family), it was Lew Smedes who taught my one class in Bonhoeffer's thought.Robert Cornwallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04581876323110725024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-29006133187315469902007-06-29T13:40:00.000-04:002007-06-29T13:40:00.000-04:00Ah the dilemma of definitions! Ken, I chose the wo...Ah the dilemma of definitions! Ken, I chose the word 'disciple' carefully with reference to D. B.'s relation to Barth, because D. B. would never admit to being a disciple of anyone other than Christ. At the same time, as Andras Pangritz (2000) argues, Bonhoeffer and Barth were two edges of the same 'sword' of the Word of God, each cutting away at the tenacles of religion and forging a way forward on slightly different paths. <BR/><BR/>And Erin, by action without reflection, I think that D. B. meant the kind of reflection that steps back from action in order to establish some justification in universal principles prior to action. He 'reflected on' situations not about them, in order to gain insight as to where his action should best be invested. Insight is directed into situations for the sake of action; reflection is directed away from situations in order to establish ethical justification (if possible) for action.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-74726700247174331372007-06-29T13:12:00.000-04:002007-06-29T13:12:00.000-04:00Prof. Anderson! What a delight to find you here. ...Prof. Anderson! What a delight to find you here. Thanks for the posts. Your lecture on a theology for the emergent church in Irvine was great, and it seems like it could make the 10 point post format, as well.<BR/><BR/>#8 is still sticky for me: I worry that the without reflection, I will only reproduce the actions and values of my context.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-65600045988780052862007-06-29T11:49:00.000-04:002007-06-29T11:49:00.000-04:00Hi Ray,What a treat! I'd been think of doing a 10...Hi Ray,<BR/><BR/>What a treat! I'd been think of doing a 10 Ps on DB myself. I am now so glad I didn't: why have cotton when you can have silk?<BR/><BR/>It's also very timely for me personally, as I'm just about to review a new book on Bonhoeffer (for the UK Student Christian Movement magazine <I>Movement</I>): <I>Heart of Flesh: Dietrich Bonhoeffer: A Study in Christian Prophecy</I> by Gillian Court (published, appropriately - #7 - by Churches Together in Britain and Ireland). So #5 - and as Bonhoeffer was so Jeremiah-like, #2 and #3 as well - will come in handy!<BR/><BR/>I think my only quibble (of definition, really) would be with with your statement (in #8) that "Bonhoeffer was never a disciple of Barth": and not so much because "almost everything Bonhoeffer wrote was written with Barth in mind" (John Godsey, approvingly cited by Charles Marsh), but precisely because true Barthians are not clones by critics.<BR/><BR/>I particularly like #9, how Bonhoeffer fits no formula, how he is a thorn in the flesh of liberals and evangelicals alike.<BR/><BR/>And as for #10, Amen! - as if the earliest martyrs themselves weren't bearing a Christian witness <I>precisely</I> in bearing a political witness. Christ <I>or</I> Hitler was simply (!) the Christ <I>or</I> Caesar of the Third Reich.<BR/><BR/>Thanks again for your insight and precision. We are all in your debt.<BR/><BR/>KimAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-23037385445615443282007-06-29T11:43:00.000-04:002007-06-29T11:43:00.000-04:00LeRon: you guessed right! While D. B. was involved...LeRon: you guessed right! While D. B. was involved in ecumenical dialogue prior to his activity with the conspiracy, I think that he began to view the insitutional form of the church as dispensable to the extent that it claimed some kind of privileged religious space in the world. And yes, I would hope that he would agree with me that Paul's 'emergent' theology that fueled the missional thrust of the Kingdom out of Antioch was a more authentic ecclesiology (yes he still used the term!) than that of the Jerusalem community. But I would not want to 'brand' D. B. with the emerging church label!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-73435584419611628262007-06-29T11:24:00.000-04:002007-06-29T11:24:00.000-04:00Hi Ray,I loved your suggestion that Bonhoeffer was...Hi Ray,<BR/><BR/>I loved your suggestion that Bonhoeffer was a "post-denominational" theologian.<BR/><BR/>I've been thinking of him recently in relation to Christology and ethics, but your comment makes me wonder what his approach might suggest for ecumenism.<BR/><BR/>I know you recently wrote a book on the emerging church, and I'm curious what your take would be (or what you think B would say) on some of the recent efforts at ecumenical dialogue that aim for institutional and visible unity in "the Church." <BR/><BR/>My guess is that you would say the latter sounds like the Jerusalem model and you (like most emergent types... and perhaps Bonhoeffer?) would prefer the Pauline dispersion model.<BR/><BR/>LeRonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-51650035169509403352007-06-29T10:30:00.000-04:002007-06-29T10:30:00.000-04:00David: I agree, to label D. B. as an incipient pos...David: I agree, to label D. B. as an incipient postmodrn theologiain is a bit of a stretch, and I also agree that postmodern is hardly a hermeneutic for the gospel. My point was simply that modernity tends to base ethics on universal principles, while D. B. turns toward an ethic of responsibility in terms of discipleship. I did struggle over whether to include #6 but decided to use that heading to point out his turn away from universal principles in favor of concrete obedience. Thanks for your insightful comments here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-49978777318764003342007-06-29T10:13:00.000-04:002007-06-29T10:13:00.000-04:00Thanks, Prof. Anderson, for these wonderful theses...Thanks, Prof. Anderson, for these wonderful theses. My only quibble is with #6. My thoughts on this may be an aspect of my fundamental disagreement with emergent types that (1) there actually <I>is</I> such a thing as "postmodernity," and (2) that this has any real positive significance for theology. But that aside, I fail to see how thesis six relates to what you wrote. It seems that you are equating modernity with Kant's philosophy -- or in this case Kant's ethics. That seems to be a very narrow definition, and somewhat arbitrary. Is postmodernity really the first time in history that discipleship was elevated over abstract principles? I have a very hard time swallowing the notion that we have postmodernity to thank for bringing us back to the gospel. This thesis aside, the rest was excellent.David W. Congdonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03009330707703611224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-69010161774825829022007-06-29T09:50:00.000-04:002007-06-29T09:50:00.000-04:00Adrian: have not read the essay by Robinson, thank...Adrian: have not read the essay by Robinson, thanks for calling attention to it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-75218425898898534712007-06-29T09:32:00.000-04:002007-06-29T09:32:00.000-04:00Have you read Marilynne Robinson's essay on Dietri...Have you read Marilynne Robinson's essay on Dietrich Bonhoeffer in her collection of essays titled "the Death of Adam." I found it to be a pwerful and poetic meditation on his life.Adrianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17376678732915410232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-77994085428008787262007-06-29T07:33:00.000-04:002007-06-29T07:33:00.000-04:00"his own theological praxis was concerned with act..."his own theological praxis was concerned with action prior to reflection"<BR/><BR/>Man, that's really food for thought!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-68472503232772415032007-06-29T05:53:00.000-04:002007-06-29T05:53:00.000-04:00I am currently reading letters and papers from Pri...I am currently reading letters and papers from Prison. What a lovely treat this post is...!<BR/><BR/>MattAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-15717469046959825602007-06-29T05:36:00.000-04:002007-06-29T05:36:00.000-04:00Thanks for this Prof. Anderson and Ben! When I was...Thanks for this Prof. Anderson and Ben! When I was writing my contribution to the confessions meme, I forgot to include the confession that I owe far more to Dietrich Bonhoeffer's life and writing than I usually acknowledge--simply because Bonhoeffer was "trendy" when I was in seminary. While trends or fads are lousy reasons for attending to a theologian, they are even worse reasons for ignoring or failing to acknowledge such a great witness as Bonhoeffer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-83633980370168929502007-06-29T02:40:00.000-04:002007-06-29T02:40:00.000-04:00Thank you, Prof. Anderson, for this moving reflect...Thank you, Prof. Anderson, for this moving reflection.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-18694511597944140182007-06-29T01:17:00.000-04:002007-06-29T01:17:00.000-04:00CRaig A Slane makes the case for Bonhoeffer as mar...CRaig A Slane makes the case for Bonhoeffer as martyr in his book 'Bonhoeffer as Martyr'...michael jensenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15379361601019023165noreply@blogger.com