tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post116313354706613351..comments2024-03-12T03:53:57.725-04:00Comments on Faith and Theology: Ten propositions on Karl Barth: theologianBen Myershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03800127501735910966noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-70101268929817841722008-06-23T16:17:00.000-04:002008-06-23T16:17:00.000-04:00Good to find your 10 points kim. Do you have an un...Good to find your 10 points kim. Do you have an understanding of what Barth sees as how our faith works? I am trying to compare him to Bultmann, especially ref the resurrection.<BR/><BR/>Hope it is sunny in Wales!M.Rochehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07230065120756378571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-6489198039140148152008-01-21T18:16:00.000-05:002008-01-21T18:16:00.000-05:00From point 8, "For Barth, theology must be related...From point 8, "For Barth, theology must be related to the contemporary without being dominated by the contemporary...."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1163305590169673032006-11-11T23:26:00.000-05:002006-11-11T23:26:00.000-05:00As someone who became a democratic socialist philo...As someone who became a democratic socialist philosophically in high school (years before I became a Christian), I love that quote from Barth about the left sometimes getting it wrong, but that (political) conservatives seldom get it right! :-) I know many politically conservative Barthians who are always somewhat scandalized by "the red pastor of Safenwil," and who are surprised at the left-leaning politics of other Barthians like Hunsinger, Moltmann (not that Moltmann remained a "pure" Barthian), Frederick Herzog, Elizabeth Barnes, John deGruchy, etc. Some are flabbergasted at the way Robert McAfee Brown moved from Barth to liberation theology. <BR/><BR/>It never shocked me. I have always thought that, even though Barth himself never QUITE became a pacifist, gospel nonviolence fit the logic best of his theology--as is evident in such DIVERSE students of Barth as Yoder, Hauerwas, Hunsinger, Ellul, Harvey Cox, Stringfellow, Stassen, Fabricius. I have also thought that "left of center" politics (with proper cautions against idolatries of the left) "fit" better with Barth's theology than either centrist or conservative politics.<BR/><BR/>While I doubt that an Arminian-leaning Anabaptist-type can ever be a "pure" Barthian (but I remember that Barth did not like Barthians!), I am glad of Barth's influence and I take comfort in thinking my political commitments would probably meet with his approval.Michael Westmoreland-White, Ph.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06343135380354344847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1163283570610819662006-11-11T17:19:00.000-05:002006-11-11T17:19:00.000-05:00By the way, on the question of Yoder's critique an...By the way, on the question of Yoder's critique and Barth's relationship to pacifism, there's some detailed discussion in David Clough’s recent book, <I>Ethics in Crisis: Interpreting Barth’s Ethics</I> (Ashgate, 2005).Ben Myershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03800127501735910966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1163281020745244852006-11-11T16:37:00.000-05:002006-11-11T16:37:00.000-05:00Hi Josh -- good to hear from you! Hmm, this would ...Hi Josh -- good to hear from you! Hmm, this would be an excellent excuse for my slowness in finishing the "beginners" series (although I suspect it really has much more to do with my own theological dullness...).Ben Myershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03800127501735910966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1163210949574395892006-11-10T21:09:00.000-05:002006-11-10T21:09:00.000-05:00"Perhaps it is because any dogmatics is inherently..."Perhaps it is because any dogmatics is inherently a work in progress"--is this why you are leaving the 'beginners' series in the air Ben? ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1163208468021893302006-11-10T20:27:00.000-05:002006-11-10T20:27:00.000-05:00Hi Jonathan.I entirely agree with Yoder, whose the...Hi Jonathan.<BR/><BR/>I entirely agree with Yoder, whose theo-logic is compelling. Barth himself read an earlier draft of the book. Thirteen years of the Cold War on - 1970 - when the book in its definitive form was published, were Barth still alive, I wonder if the "almost" of his pacifism might not have come <I>sous rature</I>.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1163205007250684982006-11-10T19:30:00.000-05:002006-11-10T19:30:00.000-05:00"... any dogmatics is inherently a work in progres..."... any dogmatics is inherently a work in progress, a fragment however huge" -- beautifully expressed, Kim! This could serve as a motto for all theological work.Ben Myershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03800127501735910966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1163203001867025392006-11-10T18:56:00.000-05:002006-11-10T18:56:00.000-05:00Thanks for this, Kim. As you know, Yoder studied ...Thanks for this, Kim. As you know, Yoder studied under Barth and was one of his best students. What think ye of Yoder's argument in <I>Karl Barth and the Problem of War</I>, that if Barth had been more consistently Christological, he would have been a pacifist? (This is also the argument of Richard Hays in <I>The Moral Vision of the New Testament</I>.) ? Barth was almost almost <A HREF="http://www.umph.org/resources/publications/review.asp?review_id=84" REL="nofollow">almost</A> a pacifist.Jonathan Marlowehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06204365581553282434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1163187267713084902006-11-10T14:34:00.000-05:002006-11-10T14:34:00.000-05:00Great as usual, Kim. Barth was THE Reformed theol...Great as usual, Kim. Barth was THE Reformed theologian that made this Anabaptist-leaning Baptist appreciate the Reformed (Puritan) side of my heritage. No one else could have done that.<BR/><BR/>Barth was thoroughly exegetical, but I wish that he, like Moltmann, interacted more with critical scholarship. His negative experiences with far-left critical scholarship seem to have left a permanent mark--despite all he wrote about still appreciating them. And sometimes his exegesis was strained. But no 20th C. theologian interacted more with Scripture than Barth. I love that about him.Michael Westmoreland-White, Ph.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06343135380354344847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1163179815789234032006-11-10T12:30:00.000-05:002006-11-10T12:30:00.000-05:00Hi Chris.Thank you so much for your thanks.Kim Fab...Hi Chris.<BR/><BR/>Thank you so much for your thanks.<BR/><BR/>Kim Fabricius <I>is</I> my real name (my grandfather immigrated to the US from Naples at the turn of the last century - hence the Latin surname). I'm a native New Yorker, but a thirty-plus year exile in the UK (London, Surrey, Oxford, and for the last twenty-five years, Swansea, South Wales, the home of Dylan Thomas, who is not fit to tie the shoes of his namesake R. S., and "the graveyard of ambition"!). Oh, and my gender is male!<BR/><BR/>Actually, I was converted in the late seventies by reading Barth's <I>Romans</I>. Indeed, my son's name is Karl - and he's the exact same age as Ben! If he'd been a girl, she would have been Karla - or Grace! But I don't think of myself as an old fart, more a mint-condition '66 Corvette, the year I graduated from high school and headed off to Wesleyan to major in English (I still run fifteen miles a week; indeed some of my best work is done pounding the pavements)!<BR/><BR/>Now my mea culpa: I have not, in fact, read <I>all</I>, only <I>most</I>, of the <I>CD</I>. However, I own sixteen other books by Barth - along with my sacrosanct copy of <I>Romans</I>, held together as it is by Scotch tape. As for the secondary literature, I have no less than thirty-four volumes on my book shelves, straining under the weight. Anyway, a lot of logged hours thinking about Barth - and thinking about thinking about Barth.<BR/><BR/>But enough. I don't want to spoil <I>all</I> of my "mystery". :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1163179458888633712006-11-10T12:24:00.000-05:002006-11-10T12:24:00.000-05:00Benjamin,This is great, great stuff. It has helpe...Benjamin,<BR/><BR/>This is great, great stuff. It has helped me understand Barth even more...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1163177320763113512006-11-10T11:48:00.000-05:002006-11-10T11:48:00.000-05:00Thanks Kim! This is the best one yet!Is Kim a 'nom...Thanks Kim! This is the best one yet!<BR/>Is Kim a 'nom de plum' or your real name? <BR/>I suppose the mystery of your never logging in with a blog adds to the ambience. <BR/>You seem to have really spent a good deal of time with Karl Barth's writings. How many hours would you say you've logged with CD?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1163167401873249912006-11-10T09:03:00.000-05:002006-11-10T09:03:00.000-05:00Hi Sam.You're right about the ongoing captivity, b...Hi Sam.<BR/><BR/>You're right about the ongoing captivity, but I do sense - thanks to Barth - that at least some theologians are rattling the cage.<BR/><BR/>By the way, a captivity that worries me even more is that to the state, or at least to its underlying plausibility structure, the paradigm of secular liberalism. Again, there are dissenting voices, but they should have been SHOUTING post 9/11 - even over Afghanistan (I mean, it didn't take a prophet to see the writing on the wall); instead they talked in measured tones. <BR/><BR/>You mention England (UK). Here is my reading of another related and relevant theme, viz. the recent pronouncements by the Blair government on the veil and faith schools: they are meant, the spokesmen say, to open debate; in fact, they are a pre-emptive strike on religion to keep out of the public sphere. Observe the somatic focus in all these examples - of war, religious symbolism, and education. Sure, secular liberalism indulges religion when it is reduced to "spitituality" - the inner, the private - but let religion throw its <I>physical</I> weight around in the forum and the state gets nervous, as it claims complete control over our bodies. <BR/><BR/>Although Islam may be dangerous because it does not know how to exist, like Christianity, as diaspora - i.e. because it seems, innately, to have hegemonic ambitions - the Muslim reaction to government fear-mongering reminds the church that in our faith too our bodies are always on the line. For a statement of the case <I>in extremis</I> - in Pinochet's Chile - see William Cavanaugh's important <I>Torture and Eucharist</I> (1998).<BR/><BR/>Off topic? No! Follow the trajectory and Barth speaks to this context too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1163155515288757942006-11-10T05:45:00.000-05:002006-11-10T05:45:00.000-05:00Wonderful, many thanks - but one question. You say...Wonderful, many thanks - but one question. You say "When Barth began his writing and teaching career, theology was in captivity to the university" - how has this situation changed? Seems to me that - especially when you see how ministers are trained, eg in England (with the exception of Mirfield) - the church remains in Babylonian captivity, subject to <A HREF="http://www.cambridge.org/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=052155909X" REL="nofollow">the Lockean dictatorship of reason</A>.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1163145502234197162006-11-10T02:58:00.000-05:002006-11-10T02:58:00.000-05:00This post was inspiring!Thanks Kim! and Ben!This post was inspiring!<BR/><BR/>Thanks Kim! and Ben!Seanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15155789202261126090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1163140015040310892006-11-10T01:26:00.000-05:002006-11-10T01:26:00.000-05:00These ten pointers from Kim are always fun - thank...These ten pointers from Kim are always fun - thanks again!<BR/><BR/>Loved the line from Flannery O’Connor about throwing the furniture around. Hadn't heard that one before.byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.com