tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post116072479258237738..comments2024-03-25T13:40:30.747-04:00Comments on Faith and Theology: Tom Wright: Simply ChristianBen Myershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03800127501735910966noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-72653802893376134852011-08-15T23:05:01.831-04:002011-08-15T23:05:01.831-04:00Generally speaking, the trouble with bishops are t...Generally speaking, the trouble with bishops are that they are generally speakingkim farbisiusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-25771588863792183072011-08-15T23:04:59.981-04:002011-08-15T23:04:59.981-04:00David Williamson asked for further good books in t...David Williamson asked for further good books in this genre. From more liberal perspectives, there's <br>Langdon Gilkey, Message & Existence.<br>Marcus Borg, The Heart of Christianity.<br><br>An African-American edition to the genre is James H. Evans, Jr., We Have Been Believers.<br><br>A fairly good evangelical Baptist addition (from someone who, Jim West will be thrilled to know, was also a Bultmann scholar!) is <br>Morris Ashcraft, Christian Faith and Beliefs.<br><br>Karl Barth's Credo is a classic in the genre.<br><br>Any others? I am looking forward to reading Bishop Wright's.Michael Westmoreland-Whitehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06343135380354344847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1163575560943822882006-11-15T02:26:00.000-05:002006-11-15T02:26:00.000-05:00Jim,N.T. has a chapter devoted to "Jesus' Self-Und...Jim,<BR/><BR/>N.T. has a chapter devoted to "Jesus' Self-Understanding" in "The Incarnation: An Interdisciplinary Symposium on the Incarnation of the Son of God" (Oxford).Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03441295976350265572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1160951920427648972006-10-15T18:38:00.000-04:002006-10-15T18:38:00.000-04:00Hi again Jim: glad this was helpful. In case it's ...Hi again Jim: glad this was helpful. In case it's of interest, the argument in <I>Jesus and the Victory of God</I> is also presented in a summarised form as one of the chapters in Wright's little book, <I>The Challenge of Jesus</I>.Ben Myershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03800127501735910966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1160884587699359222006-10-14T23:56:00.000-04:002006-10-14T23:56:00.000-04:00Thanks, Ben (Marinus de Jonge) and Byron (Jesus & ...Thanks, Ben (Marinus de Jonge) and Byron (<I>Jesus & the Victory of God</I>). I've ordered both.<BR/><BR/>Also ran across a 4-part audio at NTWrightPage.com of Wright's IVP conference where part 3(I think it was) on God and Jesus spoke to this issue.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1160871200649393492006-10-14T20:13:00.000-04:002006-10-14T20:13:00.000-04:00I like Jenson, but he's a just a little bit too Lu...I like Jenson, but he's a just a little bit too Lutheran for an Anabaptist like myself to feel completely comfortable. (Of course, "comfort level" is hardly a criterion for reading theologians!0Michael Westmoreland-White, Ph.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06343135380354344847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1160862931706816162006-10-14T17:55:00.000-04:002006-10-14T17:55:00.000-04:00And another great book in the same genre:Robert W....And another great book in the same genre:<BR/><BR/>Robert W. Jenson, <I>Story and Promise: A Brief Theology of the Gospel about Jesus</I> (Fortress, 1973).<BR/><BR/>This is probably my favourite book in the genre, although sadly it is long out of print. Perhaps those good people at Wipf & Stock will one day do a nice reprint...?Ben Myershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03800127501735910966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1160858176227850882006-10-14T16:36:00.000-04:002006-10-14T16:36:00.000-04:00Three books specifically on the Apostles' Creed by...Three books specifically on the Apostles' Creed by outstanding theoloians are:<BR/><BR/>Helmut Thielicke, <I>I Believe</I> (1965)<BR/><BR/>Wolfhart Pannenberg, <I>The Apostles' Creed in the Light of Today's Questions</I> (1972)<BR/><BR/>Hans Küng, <I>Credo: The Apostles' Creed Explained for Today</I> (1992)<BR/><BR/>And a recent book by a Barthian Welshman: D. Densil Morgan, <I>The Humble God: A Basic Course in Christian Doctrine</I> (2005)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1160850674030428812006-10-14T14:31:00.000-04:002006-10-14T14:31:00.000-04:00David Williamson asked for further good books in t...David Williamson asked for further good books in this genre. From more liberal perspectives, there's <BR/>Langdon Gilkey, Message & Existence.<BR/>Marcus Borg, The Heart of Christianity.<BR/><BR/>An African-American edition to the genre is James H. Evans, Jr., We Have Been Believers.<BR/><BR/>A fairly good evangelical Baptist addition (from someone who, Jim West will be thrilled to know, was also a Bultmann scholar!) is <BR/>Morris Ashcraft, Christian Faith and Beliefs.<BR/><BR/>Karl Barth's Credo is a classic in the genre.<BR/><BR/>Any others? I am looking forward to reading Bishop Wright's.Michael Westmoreland-White, Ph.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06343135380354344847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1160847527742779092006-10-14T13:38:00.000-04:002006-10-14T13:38:00.000-04:00Mike,Thanks for the wine tip - I'll get a bottle o...Mike,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the wine tip - I'll get a bottle of Wolf Blass yellow label, tucker down, smoke a bit, and read the book. I knew there had to be a good wine for this occasion! ;-)T.B. Vickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00965990105136999148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1160812153303647382006-10-14T03:49:00.000-04:002006-10-14T03:49:00.000-04:00Generally speaking, the trouble with bishops are t...Generally speaking, the trouble with bishops are that they are generally speakingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1160808657294903602006-10-14T02:50:00.000-04:002006-10-14T02:50:00.000-04:00That's a shame, David -- when I went to his talks ...That's a shame, David -- when I went to his talks here in Brisbane earlier in the year, the Q&A times were great. (And in an email relating to this thread, Wright says that the Q&A times are usually the highlight for him too!)<BR/><BR/>Perhaps in Washington he was feeling a little tired from all that travelling? "Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests, but the Bishop of Durham..."Ben Myershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03800127501735910966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1160799910348055262006-10-14T00:25:00.000-04:002006-10-14T00:25:00.000-04:00Thanks for the review, Ben. I went to hear him sp...Thanks for the review, Ben. I went to hear him speak at the Washington Cathedral during his book tour promoting <I>Simply Christian</I>. I found his talk to represent his laudable ability, as Kim mentioned, to "piss off both liberals and evangelicals." He succeeded in this within the first five minutes, as he strongly criticized the far right and far left for their equally Gnostic pseudo-Christianity.<BR/><BR/>I also asked the first question in the following Q&A session. I asked him how he thought his book might contribute to the current ecumenical situation in light of Lewis's own intentions with <I>Mere Christianity</I>. Sadly, he avoided my question altogether. He did a rather poor job of responding to people, usually skirting the issues instead of addressing them. His talk was fine, but the session afterwards left the evening on a low note.David W. Congdonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03009330707703611224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1160795044973535592006-10-13T23:04:00.000-04:002006-10-13T23:04:00.000-04:00Jim - Wright discusses it at much greater length i...Jim - Wright discusses it at much greater length in <I>Jesus and the Victory of God</I> - particularly Part III 'The Aims and Beliefs of Jesus'. Within this, chapter 11 deals with messiahship, chapter 12 with the meaning of his death, and chapter 13 looks ahead (I guess Wright wanted to deal with resurrection at this point, but then his proposed 70 pages blew out to the 700 page <I>Resurrection of the Son of God</I>).byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1160793680586103572006-10-13T22:41:00.000-04:002006-10-13T22:41:00.000-04:00I'm afraid my book stains tend to be chocolate rat...I'm afraid my book stains tend to be chocolate rather than Shiraz - and usually come from nodding off over Barth in bed. At least "sweet" dreams are guaranteed - double!<BR/><BR/>Ditto, by the way, regarding Jesus' self-understanding: he was not an Apollinarian!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1160781903076530182006-10-13T19:25:00.000-04:002006-10-13T19:25:00.000-04:00Appalling... And I mean spilling wine near Zwingl...Appalling... And I mean spilling wine near Zwingli! A seldom mentioned danger in drinking is the fact that one may spill something on a book- one of the most wretched side effects.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16698562143972216357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1160780289078263372006-10-13T18:58:00.000-04:002006-10-13T18:58:00.000-04:00Jim, on the question of Jesus' self-understanding ...Jim, on the question of Jesus' self-understanding (and I definitely think it's a mistake to say that Jesus "knew he was divine"), you could also look at Marinus de Jonge, <I>God's Final Envoy: Early Christology and Jesus' Own View of His Mission</I> (Eerdmans 1998) -- this is one of the most helpful books that I've read on the topic.<BR/><BR/>Mike: speaking of wine stains, just last night while I was sitting at my desk (working on an article about Barth's reading of Zwingli and Calvin) I bumped over a glass of Shiraz, and had to scramble madly to save a pile of books from wine-soaked ruin! Strangely, my first thought was not "Quick, save the laptop!", but: "Quick, save the <I>Gesamtausgabe</I> edition of Barth's lectures on Zwingli!"....<BR/><BR/>(Fortunately, no books were harmed in this incident.)Ben Myershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03800127501735910966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1160776145920190552006-10-13T17:49:00.000-04:002006-10-13T17:49:00.000-04:00You've succeeded in making me want to read this, B...You've succeeded in making me want to read this, Ben.Michael Westmoreland-White, Ph.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06343135380354344847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1160772685630502712006-10-13T16:51:00.000-04:002006-10-13T16:51:00.000-04:00Yes, a really great review of an important book.I ...Yes, a really great review of an important book.<BR/><BR/>I would love Tom Wright to do a book on time management, given that he - like Alister McGrath - seems somehow able to produce three "big" books in the time it takes us to read one!<BR/><BR/>It seems to belong to a genre of proclamation which includes:<BR/><BR/>1. Mere Christianity, CS Lewis<BR/>2. Basic Christianity, John Stott<BR/>3. Our Faith, Emil Brunner<BR/><BR/>I'd be most interested to know of any others which are worth reading and recommending.David Williamsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15336069872848288062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1160772025924126962006-10-13T16:40:00.000-04:002006-10-13T16:40:00.000-04:00Ben,Excellent review. I'm sending my brother a cop...Ben,<BR/>Excellent review. I'm sending my brother a copy for Christmas.<BR/><BR/>Stephen G - I think SC and the DVD series have some similarities, but the DVD is really an intro to the Bible.<BR/><BR/>T.B. Vick - Mate, only even read Wright with Wolf Blass yellow label, it's a beautiful Cabernet Sauvignon! My copy of RSG is tinged with red pages due to my wine stained fingers touching the pages.Michael F. Birdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09713482855679578651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1160768633863088922006-10-13T15:43:00.000-04:002006-10-13T15:43:00.000-04:00ben, great review and i agree with your overall ta...ben, great review and i agree with your overall take on the simple beauty of the book. i did find his gender discussion a little off putting, particularly if the point was to introduce Jesus. I just wondered if that could distract from his main point about relationships. Thoughts?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1160759424006912072006-10-13T13:10:00.000-04:002006-10-13T13:10:00.000-04:00Thanks Ben. I was delighted to find Simply Christi...Thanks Ben. I was delighted to find <I>Simply Christian</I> as I was working thru Wright's commentary on Romans in the <I>New Interpreter's Bible</I> series (another 'WOW!').<BR/><BR/>Question: Beginning on p 118 Wright speaks to the issue of Christ's self knowledge - "...many Christians have taken a wrong turn...[speaking] of Jesus as being 'aware,' during his lifteime, of his 'divinity'..."<BR/><BR/>Can any of you point me to sources that discuss this perspective more fully? Wright's example of the Garden of Gethsemane has always been a sticking point for me in regards to buying the Evangelical party line (Jesus knew he was God).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1160747110533272552006-10-13T09:45:00.000-04:002006-10-13T09:45:00.000-04:00Good review Ben. I just bought this book three day...Good review Ben. I just bought this book three days ago so I am anxious to tucker down with a nice glass of wine, light up my pipe, and read the book!<BR/><BR/>Looks like a rich Pinot Nior would go nicely with this book. ;-)T.B. Vickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00965990105136999148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1160731503792408422006-10-13T05:25:00.000-04:002006-10-13T05:25:00.000-04:00Thanks for the review. I'll pull a copy out of the...Thanks for the review. I'll pull a copy out of the library sometime soon and give it a read.<BR/><BR/>A while back Wright did a DVD series "Living Faith: Exploring the Essentials of Christianity". Do you know if the book is related to this?Stephen Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15456690839984160620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1160730115884416222006-10-13T05:01:00.000-04:002006-10-13T05:01:00.000-04:00Thanks for the review, Ben. I bought and read Sim...Thanks for the review, Ben. I bought and read <I>Simply Christian</I> around the time it came out in May and was not disappointed. It is at once comprehensive and compact; it is already being called the <I>Mere Christianity</I> of our times - though of course Wright is in a different ball park from Lewis theologically.<BR/><BR/>I like the way Wright is adept at the apt and wry metaphor. After his nod to a <I>kind</I> of natural theology - where he launches his image of the echoing, whispering voice (e.g. in the intimations of justice and beauty) - when he begins to talk "proper" theology he says: "None of these by itself points directly to God. . . At best, they wave their arms around in a rather general direction" (p. 49).<BR/><BR/>Or, again: "A great many arguments about God . . . run the risk of behaving like someone waving a torch upwards into the sky to see if the sun is shining" (p. 50).<BR/><BR/>Wright is also a master of the put-down which is ironic without being (too!) cruel, e.g. when it comes new age spirituality and postmodern nostrums, particularly when they are flavour on the month in the church. Like:<BR/><BR/>"When Jesus' followers asked him to teach them to pray, he didn't ask them to divide into focus groups and look deep into their hearts. He didn't begin by getting them to think slowly through their life-experiences, to discover what types of personality each of them had, to spend time getting in touch with their buried feelings . . ." (p. 141).<BR/><BR/>And Wright's short, final chapter on ethics is actually quite lovely, emphasing, as it does, simple kindness. And speaking of peace and forgiveness (my and your recent posts), Wright suggests that "Violence and personal vengeance are ruled out, as the New Testament makes abundantly clear" (p. 193). And though he then acknowledges a legitimate use for governmental force, he emphasises that "The Christian gospel challenges us to grow up morally in ways never dreamed of by much of the world" (p. 194).<BR/><BR/>Mind, along the way there are things here that will piss off both liberals and evangelicals. Which is, perhaps, the book's ultimate accolade!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com