tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post115809960294074849..comments2024-03-25T13:40:30.747-04:00Comments on Faith and Theology: Is the reformation over? Mark Noll and Carolyn NystromBen Myershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03800127501735910966noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1158267864726824732006-09-14T17:04:00.000-04:002006-09-14T17:04:00.000-04:00I think Balthasar's impact in all of this is perh...I think Balthasar's impact in all of this is perhaps missed... it is said that JPII's rather Barthian sounding encyclicals owe not a little to Balthasar's channelling of Barth: which certainly makes them more palatable reading for Protestants. The turn to the Bible is one of the most impressive and refresing things in them...michael jensenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15379361601019023165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1158248324357136862006-09-14T11:38:00.000-04:002006-09-14T11:38:00.000-04:00Have to say I'm rather dissapointed. There is a lo...Have to say I'm rather dissapointed. There is a lot of smoke around Protestant-Catholic reappraisals of the Reformation and Counter-Reformation, but little fire. We can back slap each other and defend the unborn, the elderly, and the poor all we want, but until both parties clearly and almost creedally redefine the central definitions surrounding justification in an honest, clear, and systemic way, and in a way that is willing to overturn previous symbols, including Trent, then little real and lasting progress can happen (aside from an emotional progress of pragmatic ignorance, which, in the name of downplaying doctrine, actually empties it of all real meaning).tchittomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15603445266088083067noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1158239586683650142006-09-14T09:13:00.000-04:002006-09-14T09:13:00.000-04:00Ben,In Barth's lecture 'the theology of the reform...Ben,<BR/><BR/>In Barth's lecture 'the theology of the reformed confessions' he lays out the idea that during the Reformation while the differences between Reformed and Lutheran theologies is played out most heatedly in the debate about the Eucharist the real difference revolved around their Christology and the ideas of mediation and revelation. Perhaps in a similar way even though the differences between Protestants and Catholics seems to get played out most visibly in their ecclesiologies today, the root of these differences is still tied more specifically to their ideas of grace and mediation--their doctrines of God and Christology (major theological differences from the beginning)? Perhaps the change has more to do with the personal respect and affection that Noll mentions than a theological shift? Just wondering.ehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14103443708683848340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1158228679509072262006-09-14T06:11:00.000-04:002006-09-14T06:11:00.000-04:00"There isn't a man out there who would come to Pro..."There isn't a man out there who would come to Protestantism who wasn't born in it or came to it in almost complete ignorance of Catholicism." <BR/><BR/>What about Martin Luther?David Williamsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15336069872848288062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1158226737348986292006-09-14T05:38:00.000-04:002006-09-14T05:38:00.000-04:00It's possible to find common ground between Protes...It's possible to find common ground between Protestants and Catholics - I'm Catholic and belong to a group blog made up of Quakers :-)crystalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05681674503952991492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1158207974415388372006-09-14T00:26:00.000-04:002006-09-14T00:26:00.000-04:00Tarwater, you torch straw men with the gusto of th...Tarwater, you torch straw men with the gusto of the inquisition. I would imagine that your own bishop, to whom you owe obedience, would be horrified at your intemperate allegations.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1158187109004088042006-09-13T18:38:00.000-04:002006-09-13T18:38:00.000-04:00Yes, Fred, they speak very warmly about the sectio...Yes, Fred, they speak very warmly about the section on prayer -- this section is discussed on pp. 122-24.<BR/><BR/>"Throughout this section, Protestants and Catholics alike will find ways to deepen their praying. All Christians longing to move prayer out of the rut of self-serving petitions will find much to reorient their hearts to the character and purposes of God" (p. 122).Ben Myershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03800127501735910966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1158186493092175392006-09-13T18:28:00.000-04:002006-09-13T18:28:00.000-04:00Happily, Tarwater's understanding of Protestantism...Happily, Tarwater's understanding of Protestantism is not representative of the way most Catholics feel!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1158185097547120792006-09-13T18:04:00.000-04:002006-09-13T18:04:00.000-04:00Tarwater,You wrote, "There isn't a man out there w...Tarwater,<BR/><BR/>You wrote, "There isn't a man out there who would come to Protestantism who wasn't born in it or came to it in almost complete ignorance of Catholicism."<BR/><BR/>On what grounds can you make such a claim?Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10640010386034772236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1158184664307160342006-09-13T17:57:00.000-04:002006-09-13T17:57:00.000-04:00Protestantism is a religion of reason not revelati...Protestantism is a religion of reason not revelation. Every Protestant, Bible in hand, is his own pope. There are theoretically, and more and more existentially, as many Protestantisms as there are Protestants.<BR/><BR/>Sola Scriptura is human theology, not God's teaching.<BR/><BR/>The problem with the Protestant movement is that it cannot be criticized, because it continually morphs. Destroy sola Scriptura and Protestants abandon defending it in favor of more human theology. <BR/><BR/>Point out that the Nicene creed is normative for Christian Faith and they redefine the meaning of the words in the Creed to suit their pressuppositions.<BR/><BR/>Point out that whatever the Church was in the 1st century is Apostolic in authority and they deny that the Church was led by Bishops everywhere that it existed by the end of the 1st century.<BR/><BR/>Point out that the Scriptures proclaim that 'the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth' and they say nobody is the pillar and foundation of truth. Or they redefine church in a way that is a half truth when compared to the Apostles understanding and use of the word.<BR/><BR/>There are as many interpretations of the Bible as there are interpreters. Protestantism is manifestly theological and doctrinal anarchy and division. Is that the means Christ left for his Church? I think not.<BR/><BR/>There isn't a man out there who would come to Protestantism who wasn't born in it or came to it in almost complete ignorance of Catholicism. Ask yourself this question: How old was I and what was my capacity for perception and discernment when I made the choice for Protestantism? Understanding precedes judgement. How much did you understand when you judged?Binxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03483813659750876240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1158152804071191652006-09-13T09:06:00.000-04:002006-09-13T09:06:00.000-04:00Im not so sure that the Reformation is over just y...Im not so sure that the Reformation is over just yet. There are still serious differences between Roman Catholic and Evangelical Protestant teaching. Many of the issues that divided the Reformers from Rome in the 16th Century remain unresloved. There are still honest disagreements over the relationship between Scripture and tradition, the doctrine of transubstantiation, justification by faith alone, the role of Mary as "co-mediatrix" and so on. <BR/><BR/>Thanks for the review, though. Looks like an essential read for anyone who would like to keep abreast of Evangelical and Catholic dialogue.Guy Davieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09184743462264437085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1158112485010871722006-09-12T21:54:00.000-04:002006-09-12T21:54:00.000-04:00I've heard of the book, but didn't realize that it...I've heard of the book, but didn't realize that it included an analysis of the CCC. I wonder if they noticed Section 4, on Prayer, written by an Eastern Rite Catholic.<BR/><BR/>FredFredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01262662173303042998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1158109591966777572006-09-12T21:06:00.000-04:002006-09-12T21:06:00.000-04:00thanks for this review and notice. i will be sure...thanks for this review and notice. i will be sure to look into this book, especially as an American raised in the evangelical world with a keen interest in contemporary Catholicism. And to heap more praise, continue with the fine work in your theology for beginners series.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com