tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post115121625506998534..comments2024-03-12T03:53:57.725-04:00Comments on Faith and Theology: Ten propositions on preachingBen Myershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03800127501735910966noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-75840708019528330792009-07-28T16:48:41.762-04:002009-07-28T16:48:41.762-04:00I'm coming late to the game, but I hope to sti...I'm coming late to the game, but I hope to still have some good dialogue. I'm working on resources for how preachers can use visuals well (<a href="http://powerpointforpreachers.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">link</a>) - I agree that illustrations can distract from the sermon - if they're not well used. However, your point that one cannot both read and hear at the same time is only part of the story. John Medina (<a href="http://www.brainrules.net" rel="nofollow">brainrules.net</a>) a neuroscientist at the University of Washington points out that vision is our primary sense and that there is a huge increase in comprehension and recall when information is encoded both visually and audibly. <br /><br />The history of the church is filled with visual representations of the gospel (mosaics, frescoes, stained glass, cathedral floor plans, paintings, etc.) - one need not be a techie to use visuals to communicate the gospel. However, if we are to communicate in the language of the people, we need to consider using technology.<br /><br />$0.02 for you.James T Woodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13870789574689752112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-54611627741426182412007-01-04T02:49:00.000-05:002007-01-04T02:49:00.000-05:00That last comment was me...That last comment was me...Aric Clarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15241157655075444268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1162029701051120182006-10-28T06:01:00.000-04:002006-10-28T06:01:00.000-04:00I know this is an ancient post, but as a very pass...I know this is an ancient post, but as a very passionate preacher myself I couldn't pass up an opportunity to comment. Plus, I am a rapidly growing fan of Kim Fabricius and his pithy arguments..<BR/><BR/>I agree and find much value in most of your points, but I couldn't disagree more with point number 7 "Technique? Skills? Voice coaching? Forget about them." This sounds like parroting of old prejudices by intellectual or academic preachers against more charismatic ones. There are several reasons why these skills are not only useful, but critical to authentic preaching.<BR/><BR/>#1 you give it in point 3 - preparation. Why prepare the preacher in prayer, the scripture through exegesis, and the sermon through writing and not prepare the presentation? It makes no sense. Preparation of a preacher to have clear and moving vocal quality, emotional expression and movement is just as important as any other kind of preparation.<BR/><BR/>#2 - incarnation. As you pointed out a sermon is not a what, but a who. The sermon is embodied by the preacher in the preaching moment and that includes the whole person, voice, body, everything. If the preacher does not put themselves into it in terms of emotion, projection, vocal dynamics, pauses, gestures etc... then they are not really preaching. Just reading a text aloud. You separate word-care out as valuable, but denigrate care of the whole mechanism which is saying these words. <BR/><BR/>#3 - Homiletics is not a literary art form it is a performative art form. That is we "do" it. Surely all the tools we use to do it are valuable and should be practiced. Learning skills to become a better preacher is not at all to suggest that a sermon is MERE oratory, but a sermon does in fact involve speaking. Would you tell an organist not to practice?<BR/><BR/>#4 - "Smooth tongues are forked" this is nothing but prejudice. It is the same argument used down the ages against beautiful music in worship - it can be used to manipulate people. Of course, any gift can be turned to poor uses and we could all point to preachers who abuse their authority by preaching prosperity gospel or something else, but this is a horrible reason to condemn the skills themselves. Theological speech is broken, yes, but what we want to emulate about Moses is not his stammer. These are stories about overcoming inadequacies, not about raising up flaws as commendable. We all have our own inadequacies we have to overcome in the preaching moment, but it is an insult to preachers and congregations to suggest that all preachers should be plain-spoken, inarticulate, stammerers. <BR/><BR/>Quite frankly, I wish more preachers would spend some time considering the presentation side of things, considering how they might better embody the message. 95% of communication is nonverbal. Can we even pretend to be faithfully attempting to preach God's word if we aren't using all of ourselves to do it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1151516592337040802006-06-28T13:43:00.000-04:002006-06-28T13:43:00.000-04:00"Also, one is not forgiven before repentance."!!!J..."Also, one is not forgiven before repentance."!!!<BR/><BR/>Jesus said (Luke 23:34) "Father, forgive them for they do not know what they are doing." wth, I think you will have trouble reconciling your statement with Jesus forgiveness of those who haven't repented.Looneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15801436449971512320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1151502463900927422006-06-28T09:47:00.000-04:002006-06-28T09:47:00.000-04:00Why not just give 2 Timothy 4:1-5.Herein are the b...Why not just give 2 Timothy 4:1-5.<BR/>Herein are the best points about preaching. Also, one is not forgiven before repentance. read Acts 2:38. thanks, wthAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1151392866685569662006-06-27T03:21:00.000-04:002006-06-27T03:21:00.000-04:00This opening, "... You eat the book; it is sweet i...This opening, "... You eat the book; it is sweet in the mouth but bitter in the stomach (Rev. 10:9-11); you spit out the Word and spray the congregation. When grace hits the mark, it always begins with an unpleasant recoil." Really caught my attention :-) I'm looking forward to the hearing preaching propositions.Sivin Kithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00502268089572043872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1151374076082593842006-06-26T22:07:00.000-04:002006-06-26T22:07:00.000-04:00THE SEQUEL:In response to the suggestion above, Ki...<B>THE SEQUEL:</B><BR/><BR/>In response to the suggestion above, Kim has also written a sequel-post about <I>hearing</I> preaching. So stay tuned for the sequel this Sunday....Ben Myershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03800127501735910966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1151370727866076652006-06-26T21:12:00.000-04:002006-06-26T21:12:00.000-04:00Hi Jordan,No offence taken, really. I actually th...Hi Jordan,<BR/><BR/>No offence taken, really. I actually thought the "bullet points" was a nice touch, no malice. In any case, when you lead with your chin, you've got to expect to take a few shots.<BR/><BR/>Shalom,<BR/>KimAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1151369302521130082006-06-26T20:48:00.000-04:002006-06-26T20:48:00.000-04:00kim fabricius,I apologize for any offense with "bu...kim fabricius,<BR/>I apologize for any offense with "bullet points". It was a late night for me, and looking back I would have chosen my words differently, and I'm sorry for that - no excuses though.<BR/><BR/>What you wrote makes a lot more sense and I appreciate your follow up. Again, good stuff.Jordan Barretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17026721955455243868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1151365426481254682006-06-26T19:43:00.000-04:002006-06-26T19:43:00.000-04:00Not any more, he can't."The past is not dead. The...<I>Not any more, he can't.</I><BR/><BR/>"The past is not dead. The past is not even past." - William FaulknerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1151351616038120282006-06-26T15:53:00.000-04:002006-06-26T15:53:00.000-04:00Hi pambg,Yes, it is my ironic reply to my friend E...Hi pambg,<BR/><BR/>Yes, it is my ironic reply to my friend Exiled Preacher's comment (see above). Though Johnson can turn a phrase, can't he!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1151341067568521682006-06-26T12:57:00.000-04:002006-06-26T12:57:00.000-04:00I know of one congregation with many highly educat...I know of one congregation with many highly educated men, but it is said of them: "The women preach better than the men". Kim, should I direct your admonition towards these men? "lazy bastards!"Looneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15801436449971512320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1151338645942515422006-06-26T12:17:00.000-04:002006-06-26T12:17:00.000-04:00As for women in the pulpit, do you know Samuel Joh...<I>As for women in the pulpit, do you know Samuel Johnson's (in)famous bon mot? "Sir," the Doctor declared, "a woman's preaching is like a dog's walking on its hind legs. It is not done well; but you are surprised to find it done at all."</I><BR/><BR/>Just for future reference, is this meant to be ironic?PamBGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11324370506889227234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1151286849805277532006-06-25T21:54:00.000-04:002006-06-25T21:54:00.000-04:00Hi Ray,I confess to being a Luddite-tecnnophobe, y...Hi Ray,<BR/><BR/>I confess to being a Luddite-tecnnophobe, yet I do think that the deployment of PowerPoint in worship, particlarly when it displaces the sermon, has not been fully thought through. Nor do I find the examples you give - Jesus and the child, the sower and the widow - even remotely analogous to PowerPoint - indeed juts the opposite: these are real people who are signs of the kingdom.<BR/><BR/>Your post implicitly raises the question of sermon "illustrations", which can be like windows in a house that cast some some light and help the congregation to breathe - or they be a total destraction despite the preacher's intentions; they can also be an indication that the preacher has become tired of thinking and is having a rest - i.e. he's being a lazy bastard! A lot more, however, needs to be said on the subject.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1151282919147360802006-06-25T20:48:00.000-04:002006-06-25T20:48:00.000-04:00Kim,That is the finest article I have read in a lo...Kim,<BR/><BR/>That is the finest article I have read in a long time. I come from a church that likes the Purpose Driven Life is Gospel and after weighing, and measuring, I've found it wanting. <BR/><BR/>Your comment on letting the bastard fail in the pulpit reminds me of a joke. A minister decided to not study but expected the Holy Spirit to give him a word to deliver to the congregation through him. When the Sunday approached the pastor heard a message from the Holy Spirit. "You're lazy."<BR/><BR/>Blessings,<BR/><BR/>Eugene McKinnonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1151273506722205912006-06-25T18:11:00.000-04:002006-06-25T18:11:00.000-04:00speaking of bad grammar, sorry for the typos in my...speaking of bad grammar, sorry for the typos in my comment!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1151273410175275212006-06-25T18:10:00.000-04:002006-06-25T18:10:00.000-04:00The issue with powerpoint slides as part of the se...The issue with powerpoint slides as part of the sermons suggests that truth is communicated by audio (oral) but not visual means. Jesus used his own version of power point siides by pulliing a child out of the crowd to make his point, (probaly) pointing an actual sower scatering seed alongside the road while 'speaking' the parabable, and pointing to the widow who gave her 'mite' without calling attention to herself while give a mini-sermon on strewardship. A poor use of powerpoint is no more of a hindrance to preaching the gospel than bad grammar or inappriate humor in a sermon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1151262663125576532006-06-25T15:11:00.000-04:002006-06-25T15:11:00.000-04:00Hey Kim,This is great!! Thanks for providing us wi...Hey Kim,<BR/><BR/>This is great!! Thanks for providing us with this! I have linked it at my site.T.B. Vickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00965990105136999148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1151247506931067282006-06-25T10:58:00.000-04:002006-06-25T10:58:00.000-04:00Hi Guy.Sorry about the bad language. If it is any...Hi Guy.<BR/><BR/>Sorry about the bad language. If it is any comfort, it is not as bad as it would have been but for the sensible advice the editor!<BR/><BR/>As for women in the pulpit, do you know Samuel Johnson's (in)famous bon mot? "Sir," the Doctor declared, "a woman's preaching is like a dog's walking on its hind legs. It is not done well; but you are surprised to find it done at all."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1151244002222750872006-06-25T10:00:00.000-04:002006-06-25T10:00:00.000-04:00Kim, I was going to agree with you 100%, although ...Kim, I was going to agree with you 100%, although I am at a loss with point 8. I must sheepishly (this is where I put in the picture of the sheep) confess - I am a techy. <BR/><BR/>Still, I appreaciate the other points.Looneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15801436449971512320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1151242245347615192006-06-25T09:30:00.000-04:002006-06-25T09:30:00.000-04:00I agree with point 8, "Woe unto the techies!" See ...I agree with point 8, "Woe unto the techies!" <BR/><BR/>See my post on <I>PowerPoint and the death of Preaching</I><BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://exiledpreacher.blogspot.com/2006/06/powerpoint-and-death-of-preaching.html" REL="nofollow">site</A><BR/><BR/>You must have learned something from <I>Preaching and Preachers</I>, but not the bad language or the assumption that preachers are women!<BR/><BR/>GuyGuy Davieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09184743462264437085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1151239906107814352006-06-25T08:51:00.000-04:002006-06-25T08:51:00.000-04:00Did Luther really say that God could speak through...Did Luther really say that God could speak through a dog turd?! I haven't heard that before.<BR/><BR/>On preparation/inspiration - I agree with you, Kim, 100%. But I think it is important to remember that the inspiration of the Holy Spirit is active in the hearer as well as in the preacher. That should never be an excuse for not doing the work of preparation, but in my experience the sermon that is heard isn't always the one that's preached. And that isn't always a bad thing! ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1151235224334688432006-06-25T07:33:00.000-04:002006-06-25T07:33:00.000-04:00Hi Jordan.Ouch about the "bullet points" - except ...Hi Jordan.<BR/><BR/>Ouch about the "bullet points" - except that mine are meant to be teasing and suggestive, not mnemonic, let alone summarising ot totalising. My "Ten Propositions", after all, is not a decalogue!<BR/><BR/>My point about "relevance" is simply that God-in-the-text determines what is relevant to preach, not whatever happens to to be currently fashionable in the world. The world will, of course, put its questions to the church, and we must listen, but we must be even more attentive to the Word whose creature we are, to scriptures' counter-questions -precisely for the world's sake. (On a sophisticated level, I have Tillich's method of correlation in my sights.) I read the Book - of course; crucially, however. the Book reads me.<BR/><BR/>As for "responsibility" - mine and the Spirit's are not commensurable. This is not a zero-sum game, as if the more I am responsible the less the Spirit is responsible - indeed, just the reverse (cf. by the way, human autonomy and freedom). My job is to get on with the job, diligently and prayerfully. To be sure (as Luther said), God can speak through a dog turd let alone a lazy bastard, but from that I draw no edifying conclusion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1151233811016009752006-06-25T07:10:00.000-04:002006-06-25T07:10:00.000-04:00Excellent post!My only quibble, as an ex-Lutheran ...Excellent post!<BR/><BR/>My only quibble, as an ex-Lutheran and now Independent Catholic, is with the second half of #10. If you haven't struck oil in about <I>eight or nine</I> minutes, stop. :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1151223820755561872006-06-25T04:23:00.000-04:002006-06-25T04:23:00.000-04:00Good stuff - but I think you contradict yourself i...Good stuff - but I think you contradict yourself in points 3 and 5. You note that "If the Holy Spirit hasn’t been with the preacher in the study, he’s not going to accompany the lazy bastard into the pulpit." Shortly thereafter you say, regarding relevance, "It is God who determines relevance. Who wants to hear about relevance?"<BR/><BR/>My point is this - at first you make it up to the preacher to make the Holy Spirit present with the "lazy bastard [in] the pulpit." Yet then you seem to blow off relevance as to say it's not the preachers responsibility but is left up to God. Which is it? Lets hypothetically say a preacher screws up and "isn't with the Holy Spirit", yet lets employ your (oversimplified) argument from point 5 - could not the Holy Spirit be with the lazy bastard despite the preachers failure (or despite their care for relevance)? <BR/><BR/>Perhaps I've missed your point, and if so, such is the life of short bullet point posts. I do see a lot of good criticism, yet I also see what appears to be overreactions to possible personal (and negative) experiences.Jordan Barretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17026721955455243868noreply@blogger.com