tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post8221894425076018360..comments2024-03-25T13:40:30.747-04:00Comments on Faith and Theology: On smiling and sadness: twelve thesesBen Myershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03800127501735910966noreply@blogger.comBlogger73125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-44652966193916534692010-12-02T06:39:13.360-05:002010-12-02T06:39:13.360-05:00Point 11 re the endlessly smiling clown reminded m...Point 11 re the endlessly smiling clown reminded me of the (quite scary) book and movie "It" by Stephen King, in which the smiling and laughing clown turns out to be the personification of the irrational force of evil in the world.Justin Irelandnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-40090083521818569762010-11-20T21:01:07.088-05:002010-11-20T21:01:07.088-05:00Anonymous,
I wonder if you secretly despise the ...Anonymous, <br /><br />I wonder if you secretly despise the book of Proverbs in your purpose-driven stride across your not-so-large-as-you-think American map trumpeting "what the world really needs for redemption." <br /><br />Things so small as ants, lilies, dogs, specks in eyes, and birds can open up doors to larger worlds. And even particular kinds of smiles on a culture. <br /><br />Having one's eye's opened to this is most certainly not the same joining a 'crusade' against smiling. The pumping adrenaline from so much travel has possibly led to some slight exaggeration...Ian Packerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16018869275276615557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-37755072243468627912010-11-20T20:28:23.679-05:002010-11-20T20:28:23.679-05:00Hi Andrew. I do believe in the literal resurrectio...Hi Andrew. I do believe in the literal resurrection of Jesus from the grave, and in ‘life after death’ as resurrection after the same manner of Christ’s resurrection. However, the disciples obviously had a hard time recognizing the resurrected Jesus – even though he ate fish and had a material body of some sort (that could just appear and vanish) – and I put that difficulty down to the problem Plato plays with in Meno. That is, we can’t understand, comprehend or even apprehend something we don’t already know in some manner. (By the way, Augustine’s “The Teacher” answers the problem of learning that Plato raises most satisfactorily for me.) <br /><br />Your point about death and survival is I think very interesting. Christ dispensed with both survival and ‘rational self interest’ in his ministry and in the cross, and I think this is the most powerful argument for the Mennonite stance on the politics of non-violence as the responsibility of every follower of Jesus. Yes! Victory over death is not about survival at all! And hence – contra Augustine – “Just war” seems to me to compromises the Christian witness very seriously. Further, I believe that the paradise of God wherein the resurrected live is of an entirely different order of reality to what we currently inhabit, an order where death and survival and evil and goodness (!) are all swallowed up by love, life and light (see John’s letters). So whilst we cannot avoid thinking about the things of the coming world in the terms of this world, our thoughts are always inadequate, though they may have some symbolic significance. But obviously notions of survival have no significance in that world, linked as they are to agonism and death. The Barthian emphasis on the unknowable God – whom we can know only by recognizing our ignorance and being known by Him – and the ‘totally other’ conception of the apocalyptic inbreaking of God into our lives that you see in Moltmann – are I think very important truths to keep in mind when thinking about things we can only just barely frame; things on the other side of that unreturnable event horizon we call death.Paul Tysonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00469200454286176877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-32330158341050154112010-11-20T12:29:42.522-05:002010-11-20T12:29:42.522-05:00Hideous.
I must confess I haven't read the co...Hideous.<br /><br />I must confess I haven't read the comments, so I don't know if this has been covered.<br /><br />However, as someone who has been all over the Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox map in the US, I'm very certain that anyone who spends a great deal of time addressing issues that are tiny, insignificant, and ultimately irrelevant doesn't have a prayer of understanding what the world really needs for redemption.<br /><br />In short, waging a crusade against smiling is as useless as waging an effort to smile all the time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-76585654131718811852010-11-16T15:49:21.666-05:002010-11-16T15:49:21.666-05:00Dear Saul of Tarsus,
Can you please clarify your ...Dear Saul of Tarsus,<br /><br />Can you please clarify your position vis-a-vis the distinction you make elsewhere between sarx (flesh) and pneuma (spirit)? Your friends, the Jews, have been whispering in my ear, telling me it cannot be reduced to a distinction between time and eternity, or worldly life and a heavenly thereafter. They say it's closer to the distinction between the one creation of God under two kingdoms, two different rules. <br /><br />If you still want to claim those friends as your own, can you clarify how your sarx-pneuma distinction can come to mean -- as it does in your other reader, Augustine -- that our "spiritual bodies" means bodies so perfectly subordinate to the immortal soul that they will not need to eat, and will probably be able to fly?<br /><br />(Bobby -- your parenthetical "as creatures of course" seems to constitute a nod in the general direction of the actual issue. What that means is the question.)scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07363699655835684168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-62474747092133638872010-11-16T14:22:52.057-05:002010-11-16T14:22:52.057-05:00@Andrew,
It's an issue of recreation and the ...@Andrew,<br /><br />It's an issue of recreation and the heart, not a tawdry narcissism grounded in the tawdry universe of "me". <br /><br />Or, Heaven's not for "me" it's for "us," and "we" are for "Him" because we are in "Him" and thus in "God" (as creatures of course).Bobby Growhttp://evangelicalcalvinist.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-44467511921086528162010-11-16T11:44:45.854-05:002010-11-16T11:44:45.854-05:00how is Saul's 'literal' resurrection d...<i>how is Saul's 'literal' resurrection different?</i><br />Perhaps because it is not something we pursue?byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-8290974309797782912010-11-16T11:22:01.119-05:002010-11-16T11:22:01.119-05:00Dear Andrew,
The difference is that human efforts...Dear Andrew,<br /><br />The difference is that human efforts at extending life indefinitely are a work of the flesh, the resurrection is an act of God and thus wholly-other.<br /><br />Has God acted, will God act, does God act?Saul of Tarsushttp://www.thepaulpage.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-35280663375818581192010-11-16T01:53:14.796-05:002010-11-16T01:53:14.796-05:00Dear Saul (and anyone interested),
Presumably, we...Dear Saul (and anyone interested),<br /><br />Presumably, we think there is something tawdry about the pursuit of immortality through medicine, about (for instance) cyrogenically freezing our bodies till science advances enough to stitch us back together and keep us going indefinitely. We rightly see that same tawdriness in the purusit of youth and beauty through gyms and plastic surgery and so on that so excites our society.<br /><br />My worry is: how is Saul's 'literal' resurrection different?Andrew Gleesonhttp://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/andrew.gleesonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-40328976855680309332010-11-15T19:32:29.070-05:002010-11-15T19:32:29.070-05:00Very, very interesting post, although I'm not ...Very, very interesting post, although I'm not at all sure that I agree with most of your points. I would certainly agree that the wholesale cultural and spiritual rejection of sadness is a rejection of something essential in our humanity and spirituality...on the other hand, it's not too much of an exaggeration for me to say that Prozac (and some good therapy, natch) saved my life when I was 11 or 12. So...I have a hard time with #5 especially. It's a common trope to focus on sadness as a necessary part of artistic development; but what about all of those potential thinkers and artists who were too weighed down by misery to live up to their potential? We say, "Oh, Van Gogh created miraculous beauty out of despair"; I wonder what he would have come up with if he'd lived into old age. There's simply no way to know.<br /><br />As for the cure for sadness being God--I believe that now; but when I was a child, what I believed was that, because I was sad, God had abandoned me.<br /><br />I get what you're aiming at; I really do. But this is simply not a topic that I can separate from my own experience. I guess what I'm trying to say is that sadness is essential, but despair is toxic. And it's very, very difficult to separate the two; and it's very easy to fall from one sort of blaming those who are suffering into another.Maryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08442440051560020718noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-40899566875389010412010-11-15T12:38:07.364-05:002010-11-15T12:38:07.364-05:00@Andrew Gleeson,
I want to share a secret with yo...@Andrew Gleeson,<br /><br />I want to share a secret with you, we won't all die, but we will all be changed. Our hope is that the stuff we're made of now will be transformed into new creation stuff that is similar too but also categorically different than our current embodied existence. Yeah, I know it sounds kinda weird, but so does calling a crucified Jew "Lord," so you know, deal with it.<br /><br />Also, I know the Bultmannians and Barthians will jump in here when we start talking about a "literal" resurrection and how this is a category mistake, when we all know that it means, "well if we found Jesus' tomb would it have a body in it?" If the answer is "yes," stop being a Christian because we've been misrepresenting God. You don't have to hate us, just feel sorry for us. <br /><br />And if the tomb is empty, might I suggest that this means that God has raised Jesus from the dead (I know, I know, there's no logically necessary connection between an empty tomb a belief in the resurrection, but a bunch of us saw Jesus) and so our future hope is that we too will be raised, and so this frees us to live our lives here with our noses to the grindstone working for the Lord in whatever we do, because our work in the Lord will not be in vain.<br /><br />Just some suggestions,<br />Saul (my Greek friends call me Paul)Saul of Tarsushttp://www.thepaulpage.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-21168961389253942772010-11-15T03:02:23.702-05:002010-11-15T03:02:23.702-05:00#6 was profound, Ben!
#12 is just, true!
They we...#6 was profound, Ben!<br /><br />#12 is just, true!<br /><br />They were all good points, thanks for sharing them.Bobby Growhttp://evangelicalcalvinist.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-27493780694253078722010-11-14T21:39:28.951-05:002010-11-14T21:39:28.951-05:00but i want my 3 and 1 year old children to be alwa...but i want my 3 and 1 year old children to be always happy and smiling...why?geoffcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-54227869324475410542010-11-14T19:14:49.243-05:002010-11-14T19:14:49.243-05:00Thank you Ben for a wonderful post.
There has bee...Thank you Ben for a wonderful post.<br /><br />There has been some discussion on the thread about eschatology, and the apparent tension between 'Love is written on the face of sadness' (as you beautifully put it) and the expectation of a peacable kingdom. For myself, I can't see how they are reconcilable. Love is not possible without suffering and sorrow.<br /><br />I am interested in Paul's position (Paul your commenator I mean!). He rejects life after death emphaticallly -- which I can only assume includes resurrection conceived as a state that lies in the future like next year's Grand Final does -- but also rejects 'materialist mortalism'. The problem of course is how one avoids materialist mortalism if one rejects life after death. Paul admits the problem, and (if I am reading him rightly) also admits he cannot really an answer (it is "totally inconceivable").<br /><br />So maybe we need to think about what 'materialist mortalism' is, and what, by contrast, 'triumph over death' is. Paul rightly recognises that triumph over death is not a matter of God contriving to do what modern medical science strives to do -- keep us going indefinitely. Even if it could succeed, this techical triumph, a triumph of worldly physical force, is in a deeper sense a capitulation to death, for it makes survival the most important thing, the be-all-and-end-all. That, I suspect, is actually a form materialist IMMortalism, something just as mistaken as its mortalist counterpart. The enemy is not death itself but, so to speak, 'Death And Survival', the placing of THAT ISSUE (will I survive or not?) at the centre of our lives.<br /><br />Here is an alternative. Death is defeated on calvary because calvary shows that love is stronger than death. The crucial issue is: stronger in what sense? We so easily fall into thinking it must be the survivalist sense. But that, really, is putting death -- or, as I say, 'Death And Survival' - above love by making it the criterion of success. There is no neutral criterion here by which we can compare love and death and say which is stronger. It is a choice between rival criteria of success. If love is stronger then it is stronger on its own terms and from its own persective. Its triumph is in being able to say 'Forgive them, Lord, for they know not what they do'. <br /><br />I admit to being immensely attracted to this sort of position. The problem, of course, is: what room is left for a literally empty tomb?Andrew Gleesonhttp://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/andrew.gleesonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-73293732464175935972010-11-14T16:31:05.210-05:002010-11-14T16:31:05.210-05:00When you fast, be not as the hypocrites, of a sad ...When you fast, be not as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance. Matthew 6:16<br />A merry heart maketh a cheerful countenance: but by sorrow of the heart the spirit is broken.<br />Proverbs 15:13<br />Nehemiah 2:2 so the king asked me, "Why does your face look so sad when you are not ill? This can be nothing but sadness of heart." I was very much afraid <br /><br />Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? (God asked CAIN, who had just murdered)<br />And I have heard it said that those pesky westerners are the largest percentage of charitable givers; Here is a verse about that.<br />He that despiseth his neighbour sinneth: but he that hath mercy on the poor, happy [is] he.<br />May the LORD smile on you and be gracious to you.<br />Numbers 6:25<br />Proverbs 29:18 Where [there is] no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy [is] he.<br />WE COULD PICK AND CHOOSE HAPPY/SAD emotion verses all day long, but God gave us the full range, and I love smiles better than sadness. When people smile at me, I feel happier inside. When I have had deep times of worship with my Father, I am happier inside and my face shows it! :) It is a reflection of things being well within, for me. This was a very dreary piece up. (but I AM a sanguine who can find a piece of light anywhere and only in deep intercession for the souls of my lost friends come to tears in earnest hope of their salvation) The rest of the time, I thoroughly love to smile and make their days brighter. Cheery-O!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-69469552091413380582010-11-12T19:50:58.456-05:002010-11-12T19:50:58.456-05:00@Irith...I can only agree with Roger Flyer, thank ...@Irith...I can only agree with Roger Flyer, thank you for sharing those thoughts.Pamelahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05815263209123614682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-43768667573698182992010-11-12T16:49:05.371-05:002010-11-12T16:49:05.371-05:00a nourishing post.
it is ironic how much relief, e...a nourishing post.<br />it is ironic how much relief, even joy, it brings.<br />(and not just 'cause emo makes me laugh.)<br />there's a follow up somewhere about the connection of pain and honest humor as an antidote too.Erinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13301222412563398458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-19086132630346477352010-11-12T16:30:08.086-05:002010-11-12T16:30:08.086-05:00Thanks Ben. I think you have perfected the art of ...Thanks Ben. I think you have perfected the art of blogging - provocative and insightful stuff. It makes me sad and happy simultaneously.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-24611458413056910132010-11-12T08:49:42.825-05:002010-11-12T08:49:42.825-05:00@Irith...Some thoughtful stuff from your heart. Th...@Irith...Some thoughtful stuff from your heart. Thanks.roger flyernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-10533072440645090932010-11-12T05:26:56.611-05:002010-11-12T05:26:56.611-05:00My theological training is zero, but from my perso...My theological training is zero, but from my personal walk with God I am coming to appreciate the spiritual poverty, and mourning, described in The Sermon on the Mount. It seems to me that they are both types of emptiness. Poverty is to have no resources. In my perception of my own poverty I can look for and obtain God's provision, God's resources (in terms of spiritual needs, i.e. I'm not espousing the 'prosperity doctrine'...). I am weak but He is strong. And when He works it is amazing, and I know not my own doing, which is an incredibly liberating experience and becomes a hunger, a desire to see it repeated continually. Mourning is the emptiness of resources too. I am mourning because I can see pain, I can see need, I feel compassionate, but I have no answers and I can see no answers. I can do nothing but weep. When we have the courage to mourn we are exposing the great need, the great deficit, to God and allowing Him to fill that space. To mourn is to have no shame, it is refusing to deny the pain, it is to insist on acknowledging it before God, it is looking to Him to address it...and He does. Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted. I don't believe this is limited to an 'end time' recalibration of the world's ills. I believe, I have experienced, God's comfort as an incredible answer to pain and grief that is able to give life and hope in real ways and ways that change lives. If we don't mourn how can we have solidarity with those who suffer? If we don't mourn how can those who suffer ever enjoy compassion from others? If we don't mourn how can we keep ourselves still so that God can act?Irithnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-31585503434974137772010-11-11T23:22:17.126-05:002010-11-11T23:22:17.126-05:00Forgive me Father Benjamin for I have smiled.........Forgive me Father Benjamin for I have smiled.......<br /><br />http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/93/Buddy_christ.jpgFathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10893777139388546286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-11377691703130038992010-11-11T22:09:39.714-05:002010-11-11T22:09:39.714-05:00History ends when you wake up from its dream/night...History ends when you wake up from its dream/nightmare and find The Beautiful Room of Perfect Space in which it all seemed to be occurring.<br /><br />Two pieces of common trivia which point to this understanding<br /><br />Merrily merrily life is but a dream.<br /><br />Ignorance is bliss.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-32693256256117173452010-11-11T20:56:14.835-05:002010-11-11T20:56:14.835-05:00enjoyed the post Ben!enjoyed the post Ben!Erinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04851261237969264984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-47983301536479316162010-11-11T20:54:51.615-05:002010-11-11T20:54:51.615-05:00Life is a tragedy for those who feel, and a comedy...Life is a tragedy for those who feel, and a comedy for those who think. - Jean De La BruyereErinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04851261237969264984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-3077961893501710702010-11-11T14:33:25.309-05:002010-11-11T14:33:25.309-05:00Wow. How unfortunate that you have so many readers...Wow. How unfortunate that you have so many readers. And what an unfortunate perspective on emotional health.<br /><br />Being unnaturally, artificially happy is no worse than putting on a fake cloak of sorrow because you think it's somehow holier than being happy.<br /><br />God gave us a HUGE range of emotions, and it was a good gift. I might even go so far as to say that it is VERY good. No one of them is any good by itself, and none of them are bad.<br /><br />Balance, in all things.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12724095775305576339noreply@blogger.com