tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post3948035350546997025..comments2024-03-25T13:40:30.747-04:00Comments on Faith and Theology: Doing theology on Aboriginal landBen Myershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03800127501735910966noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-83923751770948220532010-03-17T17:03:55.707-04:002010-03-17T17:03:55.707-04:00@ Jason: Really? Like what?@ Jason: Really? Like what?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-77813694142045175422010-03-17T13:15:37.679-04:002010-03-17T13:15:37.679-04:00The Archbishop Williams' writing does not lack...The Archbishop Williams' writing does not lack a certain intellectual force. That sort of rationalist moral approach to Christendom doesn't appear in the US for the most part, however--instead of Williams' gravitas, there are Hagees and Robertsons chanting from the Book of Rev., Paddy Mahoneys giving mass to celebrities, clever schemers studying Lacan in seminary schools, etc.Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11567400697675996283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-90916236560749242152010-03-17T07:22:50.711-04:002010-03-17T07:22:50.711-04:00A query for Bruce if you're still following th...A query for Bruce if you're still following this thread: I loved your term "anonymous historian", and I've used this in the paper — I'd like to acknowledge you for the phrase, so would you mind telling me your full name? Thanks!Ben Myershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03800127501735910966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-76309629782533281262010-03-17T07:08:20.372-04:002010-03-17T07:08:20.372-04:00Ben that sounds like the preamble of a work of chi...Ben that sounds like the preamble of a work of children's fiction and not a clear statement of faith.<br />Did whoever wrote this actually converse with Aboriginal people before writing it? I know it sounds harsh, but I'd seriously consider this insulting if I was an Aboriginal.<br /><br />'We the nasty invaders took claim of a land the great triune god made, only to find the inhabitants had a creator we still cringe to identify as the same God. We were totally surprised to discover the Spirit they respected was the same one we had, and still don't believe it but we'll give it a shot - at at least the rest of our kind will think we did something good with this. And not many of them can read and think, so they'll reckon we did our part and be mighty impressed we stepped down out of our superiority. That way, they might accept the real spirit and get saved. And.. I guess we'll get all kinds of kudos so that won't be bad.'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-42738256947143522952010-03-16T22:21:51.837-04:002010-03-16T22:21:51.837-04:00Nathan, that's very interesting news! I hadn&#...Nathan, that's very interesting news! I hadn't heard about this — it looks like Continuum must have sold the rights to the old 14-volume edition. $99 for the hardcover set seems almost too good to be true — so if I was in your shoes, I reckon I'd be placing an order before the price changes.Ben Myershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03800127501735910966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-35726132695142035262010-03-16T21:48:16.355-04:002010-03-16T21:48:16.355-04:00Ben,
This is off track, but did you see that Hend...Ben,<br /><br />This is off track, but did you see that Hendrickson Publishers is putting out an edition of Barth's Church Dogmatics in November of 2010? On cbd.com right now it is only $99US for the whole 14 volume set. I was just wondering if you had heard anything about this or had any inkling as to whether this is worth it for someone who knows he needs to read more Barth.Nathan Crawfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14341745750521129659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-55600170003978914642010-03-16T20:39:38.590-04:002010-03-16T20:39:38.590-04:00I read Chris Budden's book a few months ago - ...I read Chris Budden's book a few months ago - what a confronting piece of writing it is and one that has changed my complacency on the issues raised. Kudos to the UCA for at least attempting to tackle where indigenous Australians are placed in relation to a religious establishment which has much to be ashamed of in the past (and present).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-66316775523906848032010-03-16T20:33:56.917-04:002010-03-16T20:33:56.917-04:00The last sentence should read "we have knowle...The last sentence should read "we have knowledge of what these people did or did not have by way of the Spirit before WE people were around?"Geri Russellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08498241210144694647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-11109429929367974692010-03-16T20:19:46.378-04:002010-03-16T20:19:46.378-04:00Ben,
Any theologians come to mind that might say ...Ben,<br /><br />Any theologians come to mind that might say "Nein?" <br /><br />While my own reading of the sensus divinitas (via Kuyper/Bavinck) allows me to see a possible point of contact via the Spirit's common grace, it is an entirely different thing to sign off on a noetic bridge implicit in such assertion that there was revelation in "law, custom, and ceremony." I like what Amos Yong does in Spirit-Word-Community with his Peircian (via Gulpi) inspired view of fallability regarding claims (in this case) of the Spirit. While we can certainly imagine and hope for all kinds of things, are we really ready to state definitively that we have knowledge of what these people did or did not have by way of the Spirit before people were around? Who has access to that?Geri Russellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08498241210144694647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-46472892902068548222010-03-16T17:17:26.503-04:002010-03-16T17:17:26.503-04:00Bruce, your question pretty much sums up my critiq...Bruce, your question pretty much sums up my critique as well.Ben Myershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03800127501735910966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-942757670676160162010-03-16T10:38:09.950-04:002010-03-16T10:38:09.950-04:00I appreciate this as an attempt at theological con...I appreciate this as an attempt at theological contextualization but it falls short IMO. The New Testament is pretty clear that the vast majority of Hebrews failed to recognize their God when he showed up. Unless I'm mistaken the Aboriginees did not universally convert either. The logos spermatikoa may have been present in Aboriginal tradition to a degree, but are we ready to imply it's equivalence to scripture?Matt Stonehttp://mattstone.blogs.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-32531168210333196412010-03-16T01:53:44.911-04:002010-03-16T01:53:44.911-04:00Is this preamble meant to be a confessional statem...Is this preamble meant to be a confessional statement with the 'we believe' implicit? Or is it meant to be some anonymous historian's declaration?brucenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-78341776152552707802010-03-15T21:52:14.528-04:002010-03-15T21:52:14.528-04:00Thanks, Ben. Just about to give a lecture on race ...Thanks, Ben. Just about to give a lecture on race relations (and gender) in Australia, these issues are much on my mind.Joannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10923073692315462946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-19359716330813799142010-03-15T21:21:28.280-04:002010-03-15T21:21:28.280-04:00The preamble is very interesting - thanks for brin...The preamble is very interesting - thanks for bringing it to my attention. <br /><br />Wonder what Jonathan Edwards would have thought - in 1724 he wrote of 'gospelizing the new and before unknown world, that which is so remote, so unknown, where the devil had reigned quietly from the beginning of the world.' <br /><br />Interstingly, the new world Edwards had in mind included 'Terra Ausralis Incognita, Hollandia Nova, and all those yet undiscovered tracts of land.'Meredithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05076364508884699137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-33550715781072792642010-03-15T20:47:04.022-04:002010-03-15T20:47:04.022-04:00Ben
Have you seen the pro and contra papers in Cro...Ben<br />Have you seen the pro and contra papers in Cross Purposes, an e journal that comes out of the Vic-Tas synod?<br /><br />http://cp.unitingchurch.org.au/CP_preamble_papers.pdf<br /><br />I look forward to seeing your paper when it reaches the light of day. If you managed to send it to one or two people before the journal is out, it may be helpful as Synods and Prebyteries do their reflective work on whether or not to affirm the new Preamble.<br /><br />Just to lay cards on the table - I think that para 3 is an adequate, if not perfect (how could it be) statement within the context of the Preamble overall. In fact, I think that much of the fuss is based on people not recognising it for what it is: namely a contextual confession for the UCA at this moment.Sean Winterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09760325410280159212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-28977271991638604552010-03-15T19:43:58.590-04:002010-03-15T19:43:58.590-04:00One of the reasons I joined the Uniting Church was...One of the reasons I joined the Uniting Church was actually because it deals with, discusses and debates this issue. It is refreshing to have theology that sees its interlocutors outside of Europe/North America (i.e. where they are actually historically and spatially located!)<br /><br />It is always useful to question the 'conditions of possibility' of any theology beyond a neutral business as usual cloaked in transcendent language.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-90951379586025182482010-03-15T18:15:33.202-04:002010-03-15T18:15:33.202-04:00To Anonymous #2, Australia has plenty to learn fro...To Anonymous #2, Australia has plenty to learn from Canada concerning Aboriginal relations.Jason Goroncyhttp://cruciality.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-56719420002350217932010-03-15T17:42:17.016-04:002010-03-15T17:42:17.016-04:00Canada has plenty to learn from Australia concerni...Canada has plenty to learn from Australia concerning Aboriginal relations.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-82054152257863074112010-03-15T15:45:28.295-04:002010-03-15T15:45:28.295-04:00Ben. I'm encouraged to read about this, and ve...Ben. I'm encouraged to read about this, and very much look forward to seeing a copy of the issue of <i>Uniting Church Studies</i> that you mention. Thanks too for listing some of those other resources; some of which will join my 'To be checked out' list. Also, just wondered if you had read Vincent Donovan's <i>Christianity Rediscovered</i>. Might be of some assistance. Trust that the seminar goes well.Jason Goroncyhttp://cruciality.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-33046930687328610192010-03-15T06:53:36.211-04:002010-03-15T06:53:36.211-04:00The poor aborigines---'anonymous Christians...The poor aborigines---'anonymous Christians' millennia before Karl Rahner coined the phrase----if this isn't Christian imperialism (in the very best and impeccable - i.e., Uniting church - sense of course), then I don't know what is....Time to become a Catholic, Ben--- Christians are, and always will be, sojourners in a foreign land.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com