tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post2224280410747621279..comments2024-03-25T13:40:30.747-04:00Comments on Faith and Theology: Marx and Hitchens among the theologians?Ben Myershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03800127501735910966noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-61034863332037747242009-01-13T10:15:00.000-05:002009-01-13T10:15:00.000-05:00This post is pure ad hominem. Nothing has been sta...This post is pure ad hominem. Nothing has been stated here the disproves the 'new atheists'.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-63340558192575941652007-10-30T08:37:00.000-04:002007-10-30T08:37:00.000-04:00Interesting post.What concerns me most about criti...Interesting post.<BR/><BR/>What concerns me most about critiques of the 'new atheists' by the likes of Eagleton is that almost without exception they attempt to belittle Dawkins et al for failing to measure up to the demands of scholarly theology. The assumption is that unless they've spent decades studying theology they simply don't have the required depth of understanding and therefore their criticisms need not be taken seriously.<BR/><BR/>Superficially this is a fair point. However, if the new atheists are expected to acquire this depth of understanding in order that their criticisms be taken seriously, shouldn't the same expectations be placed upon believers in order that their professions of belief to be taken seriously?<BR/><BR/>If this is fair, might it be more intellectually honest to accept that for 90+ per cent of believers, Dawkins et al hit the nail on the head?MouthAlmightyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17964726310014716807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-89105220423572560792007-10-27T19:41:00.000-04:002007-10-27T19:41:00.000-04:00The last sentence and a half of this post deserve ...The last sentence and a half of this post deserve an "amen".<BR/><BR/>Amen.Nancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07462331473004050279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-56734859842199406882007-10-26T03:14:00.000-04:002007-10-26T03:14:00.000-04:00If I can join briefly in the conversation, while r...If I can join briefly in the conversation, while reserving the right to post a fuller response a bit later, I feel I need to point out just how unbelievably boring and tedious are the responses to Hitchens and Dawkins that run like: 'Other people reviewed them harshly and so I needn't wrestle with them myself', or, 'They are arrogantly trying to classify a diverse and complex phenomena', and so on. Worse than being tedious, such responses are expected in advance! What has Christian thinking come to when it has become entirely predicable?<BR/><BR/>This is where Marx, as usual, lights our path. By devastatingly criticizing D.F. Strauss by means of Feuerbach ("Shame on you Christians ... that it took an anti-Christian to show you the true essence of Christianity in its pure and unveiled form"), he provided Christian theology with one of its most vital weapons: the capacity to re-tool even the most divergent, heterodox, seemingly anti-Christian source as an expression of the radicality of Christianity's own ruthless critique of religion and its constitutive idolatry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-27806006368490594322007-10-26T01:33:00.000-04:002007-10-26T01:33:00.000-04:00Speaking of powerful potentially all conquering me...Speaking of powerful potentially all conquering memes you might like to check out The Lucifer Principle by Howard Bloom via:<BR/><BR/>1. www.howardbloom.netAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-66085292342802959532007-10-25T21:33:00.000-04:002007-10-25T21:33:00.000-04:00I would be interested to know if any scholarly wor...I would be interested to know if any scholarly work has been done regarding the idea that Dawkins' theory of memes may be ultimately self-defeating for atheism... after all, if religion is a "virus", and atheism is the "antidote", what makes Dawkins, et al, so sure that they will not ultimately be responsible for creating a new religious "super-virus" of sorts? Just my random thoughts... a somewhat related article can be found here:<BR/><BR/>http://www.christianitytoday.com/books/features/rumorsofglory/070910.htmlGeoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02458231323263823715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-92082981788981621812007-10-25T20:39:00.000-04:002007-10-25T20:39:00.000-04:00Well said, Scott. Nicholas Lash has also joined th...Well said, Scott. <A HREF="http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1741-2005.2007.00172.x?cookieSet=1" REL="nofollow">Nicholas Lash</A> has also joined the fray with a critique of Dawkins.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-25562593756116762962007-10-25T20:17:00.000-04:002007-10-25T20:17:00.000-04:00Thanks, Scott - an excellent post. I sometimes won...Thanks, Scott - an excellent post. I sometimes wonder if theologians stopped criticizing "religion" when Theology departments were absorbed into Religion departments, making theologians just a species of professional religionists.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-83143589751220474302007-10-25T18:29:00.000-04:002007-10-25T18:29:00.000-04:00I'm just an undergrad theology student but I canno...I'm just an undergrad theology student but I cannot seem to find any atheists that my co-workers read that even understand Christianity. I haven't even found one of these writers that does any real interaction with contemporary Christian thinkers, of any kind really, like Hart, Wright, or Plantinga even. I work at Barnes and Noble by the way. <BR/><BR/>Most of them [the writers and my co-workers] aren't even objecting, intellectually anyway, to the God of the gospel they just criticize stuff they've imagined up. The imagining of false things about God to hate is just as much of a meme as the imagining of false things about God to worship. <BR/><BR/>Anyhow, this was an interesting take on Hitchens, memes, and Marx. I wanted to read him, but none of my co-workers read him because he isn't leftist enough, "he betrayed the left" according to them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-55295163000619270482007-10-25T12:44:00.000-04:002007-10-25T12:44:00.000-04:00After reading the reviews of Eagleton and McCarrah...After reading the reviews of Eagleton and McCarraher on Dawkins and Hitchens, respectively, I had pretty well completely written off either of the two pop-atheists as having anything substantive to say. Have you read either reviews, and if so could you respond to their criticisms? Have Dawkins and Hitchens actually writtne good books, or are they just convenient points of departure for talking about Marx and Darwin?a. stewardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11088882067112605988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-70381119786120909002007-10-25T11:57:00.000-04:002007-10-25T11:57:00.000-04:00I discovered the "meme" idea through Dennett's _Br...I discovered the "meme" idea through Dennett's _Breaking the Spell_, and find it interesting if only as a way of challenging the common assumption (even among so many theologians) that one's religious ideas, practices, etc., always inevitably are calculated to serve the material interests of one's individual self, family, race, class, etc. What I call "the tyranny of the cui bono question."<BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, if perhaps inevitably, I found that Dennett could not sustain his own insight and wound up assuming that we MUST learn to evaluate religion based on what it gets us, without apparently noticing that that would mean undermining the very meme characteristics he had ascribed to it.JKnotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13567721786402019427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-9663938190189655932007-10-25T10:50:00.000-04:002007-10-25T10:50:00.000-04:00Rowan Williams recently gave a lecture responding ...Rowan Williams recently gave a lecture responding to Dawkins. It's really good. The transcript is here:<BR/><BR/>http://www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/sermons_speeches/071013.htm<BR/><BR/>And a video of the full lecture is here:<BR/><BR/>mms://mrcstr1.swan.ac.uk/marketing/rw_hi.wmv<BR/><BR/>These days public discourse is just shrill whining on every side. It's necessary to find people like Rowan Williams who present clear arguments humbly and respetfully.philqhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08265153889883377656noreply@blogger.com