tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post115043991867679938..comments2024-03-25T13:40:30.747-04:00Comments on Faith and Theology: Depressed theologians?Ben Myershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03800127501735910966noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-26724302057657168382010-06-09T23:15:20.008-04:002010-06-09T23:15:20.008-04:00I have a book at home, part of a detailed multi-vo...I have a book at home, part of a detailed multi-volume set on Reformation History that cites evidence of Luther's depression, as well as the suicides of several of his friends.<br /><br />I also have another book that mentions that Protestants in Europe had a higher rate of suicide than Catholics.Edwardtbabinskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13036816926421936940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-65793462318086581952010-06-09T23:13:39.337-04:002010-06-09T23:13:39.337-04:00BI-POLAR PENTECOSTALS
Duke University Medical Cen...BI-POLAR PENTECOSTALS<br /><br />Duke University Medical Center’s Epidemiologic Catchment Area survey (Meador, Koenig, Hughes, Turnbull & George, 1992) examined the relationship between religious affiliation and major depression. The six-month prevalence of major depression among Pentecostals was 5.4 percent compared to 1.7 percent for the entire sample.Edwardtbabinskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13036816926421936940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-47407899491915407592010-02-28T13:13:54.715-05:002010-02-28T13:13:54.715-05:00Martin Lloyd-Jones not a great theolgian? have any...Martin Lloyd-Jones not a great theolgian? have any of you read Great Doctrines of the Bible?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1151379789865650802006-06-26T23:43:00.000-04:002006-06-26T23:43:00.000-04:00William Cowper, poet and hymn writer, worked close...William Cowper, poet and hymn writer, worked closely with pastor John Newton, composer of the Olney Hymns including Amazing Grace. Cowper suffered from clinical depression and attempted suicide several times.<BR/><BR/>Thank you for braving this controversial topic. I am a Christian who has suffered from low-grade depression myself, and it can at times shake one's faith to the bones. In my doubting moments, I have had many a fellow "Christian" look me straight in the eye and tell me I do not have enough faith. (Like I can go out and muster up some.) It's devastating.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1150651824055406902006-06-18T13:30:00.000-04:002006-06-18T13:30:00.000-04:00In her book Depression (1983) the psychologist Dor...In her book <I>Depression</I> (1983) the psychologist Dorothy Rowe describes a cluster of feelings of the depressed: terrible isolation, self-absorption, fear (angst), shame and guilt (you actually feel guilty about being depressed. The depressed describe their no-exit condition with images of prisons and wastelands. <BR/><BR/>Rowe suggests that "If you are a Christian you can call it damnation." <BR/><BR/>And Deborah van Deusen Hunsinger (see above), in the context of a case study of a Christian - "Eva and Her 'Black Despairs'" - observes that "the core issue" as Eva saw it was that her depression was "an offence against God". Van Deusen Hunsinger suggests a sin-seeking God-image (which she traces to Eva's childhood experiences at the hands of a cruel father) lies at the heart of Eva's illness; and, exploring Eva's therapy, she approvingly cites what Barth says about Jesus' encounter with sinners: "The evident point of the stories . . . is not human sin but divine healing." The important thing about these people "is not that they are sinners but that they are sufferers."<BR/><BR/>No doubt the image a of God who is not love all the way down, who might always wield the stick damnation (if you're not repentant, good, orthodox, etc.) will connive with Christians who suffer from depression. I think T.B. Vick is on to something.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1150647552931681782006-06-18T12:19:00.000-04:002006-06-18T12:19:00.000-04:00Ben, you definitely strike a chord here. I don't k...Ben, you definitely strike a chord here. I don't know if the Ecclesiastes can qualify as a theologian, but Ec. 2:17 definitely show he was depressed at some time. Perhaps Elijah (1 Kings 19?) could qualify, too.<BR/><BR/>I am exploring some questions of interpretation of Ecclesiastes in my blog and this is one of the issues I intend to explore.<BR/><BR/>And this is not only an academic subject to me. I even studied for a Th.M. at Calvin Theological Seminary, and I was clinically depressed. I was diagnosed with major depression and I got Prozac prescribed. But what got me through was the counsel of a great Christian psychologist who told me two things: 1) Change your local congregation, and 2) seek suitable Christian fellowship.<BR/><BR/>Blessings,<BR/><BR/>EduardoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1150599250898063962006-06-17T22:54:00.000-04:002006-06-17T22:54:00.000-04:00Hey Ben,I tend to agree with you, however, I have ...Hey Ben,<BR/><BR/>I tend to agree with you, however, I have read interesting research which demonstrates that suicide rates tend to be higher within quite rigid legalistic environments (e.g. Mormons in Utah tend to have high suicide rate - and Mormonism is quite legalistic, also very legalistic fringe groups, etc.). <BR/><BR/>While I am not saying this is actually the case with Carnell, I do find it interesting that he was, at one time, a leader in that type of environment (i.e. fundamentalism).<BR/><BR/>Just thinking out loud, <I>not suggesting anything.</I><BR/><BR/>Paul, interesting quote.T.B. Vickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00965990105136999148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1150596430812438502006-06-17T22:07:00.000-04:002006-06-17T22:07:00.000-04:00Speaking of E. J. Carnell, he actually wrote these...Speaking of E. J. Carnell, he actually wrote these words in _The Case for Biblical Christianity_:<BR/><BR/>Illness is an evil because it saps our strength. It leaves us damaged, like a wormy apple of a chipped vase. When we are ill, we are not the self we wish to be. We cannot do the things we want, and there is so much we really want to do. ... When we become ill, some part of our body is failing us; and when an important part fails we die, that is all.<BR/><BR/>Although Carnell is speaking of ilness generally, these words seem to have an autobiographical pathos about them.Paul Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786802640380693584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1150582781401583592006-06-17T18:19:00.000-04:002006-06-17T18:19:00.000-04:00Carnell's depression and suicide are discussed in ...Carnell's depression and suicide are discussed in Julius H. Rubin's <I>Religious Melancholy and Protestant Experience in America</I> (OUP, 1994) — Rubin (rather dubiously) argues that Protestant faith is the cause of depression.<BR/><BR/>Personally, I'd prefer not to draw any direct connection between Carnell's depression and his fundamentalism. Like any other illness, depression knows no denominational boundaries.Ben Myershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03800127501735910966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1150581156381525482006-06-17T17:52:00.000-04:002006-06-17T17:52:00.000-04:00I can think of plenty of theologians who should be...I can think of plenty of theologians who should be depressed...Jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04051242488196178369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1150580706548371222006-06-17T17:45:00.000-04:002006-06-17T17:45:00.000-04:00I just recently learned that E.J. Carnell suffered...I just recently learned that E.J. Carnell suffered from depression and ultimately killed himself.<BR/><BR/>I can't but wonder if the fundamentialist evangelicalism that he, later in life, moved away from quite readily, was a factor. Hmmmm. . .T.B. Vickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00965990105136999148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1150574080761225352006-06-17T15:54:00.000-04:002006-06-17T15:54:00.000-04:00No need to state the obvious, Kim! ;-)No need to state the obvious, Kim! ;-)Guy Davieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09184743462264437085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1150568679229450582006-06-17T14:24:00.000-04:002006-06-17T14:24:00.000-04:00I wrote a very simplistic article on depression an...I wrote a very simplistic article on depression and the church about a month ago for a parish magazine. Its not particularly good and in no way am I an authority on the subject (my subject is learning disability and doctrine). It was just working out a thought experiment really. Its too long to post here, but if anyone would like to read it drop me an email at moe277@hotmail.com and Ill let you have a version.<BR/><BR/>Kim Re:wholeness - Im very wary of dominant notions in that particular field of rhetoric. On a related subject, Nancy Eiesland's 'the disabled God' has some poignant stuff detailing how certain Christians with physical disabilities that she interviewed considered their own wholeness. An incredible and challenging read.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1150557002283897762006-06-17T11:10:00.000-04:002006-06-17T11:10:00.000-04:00No so fast, Guy - Chris didn't say Lloyd-Jones was...No so fast, Guy - Chris didn't say Lloyd-Jones was a <I>good</I> theologian!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1150555906598480602006-06-17T10:51:00.000-04:002006-06-17T10:51:00.000-04:00Hi Chris, my depression is lifted by the joy of s...Hi Chris, my depression is lifted by the joy of seeing a sinner brough to repentance! ;-)Guy Davieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09184743462264437085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1150551151389481272006-06-17T09:32:00.000-04:002006-06-17T09:32:00.000-04:00Sorry Guy! OK, OK, Lloyd-Jones was a theologian!Sorry Guy! OK, OK, Lloyd-Jones was a theologian!Chris Tillinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03153087287030167791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1150551057984238682006-06-17T09:30:00.000-04:002006-06-17T09:30:00.000-04:00This is an interesting comment thread, but I think...This is an interesting comment thread, but I think we need to distinguish between the "melancholy" driven and brilliant individuals like Kiekegaard experienced and clinical depression, which impairs normal functioning and only erodes the capacities required for theological work and reflection.Paul Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786802640380693584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1150534730525372772006-06-17T04:58:00.000-04:002006-06-17T04:58:00.000-04:00I suffer with depression and can state, quite cate...I suffer with depression and can state, quite categorically, that there are no easy answers in the Christian faith.<BR/><BR/>Martin Lloyd Jones is interesting because I have read his "Spiritual Depression" which touches a lot upon what might be called "depression" in a more secular sense and I found it to be very patronising and superficial at times.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps the reason for those of the mystical tradition being depressed is that depression causes one to reflect on the nature of one's faith; upon one's relationship with God and upon the nature of prayer when one is in a barren place psychologically and emotionally.<BR/><BR/>To be a mystic is to explore only one avenue of faith. I recall in the midst of a particularly harsh episode of chronic depression that I couldn't even pray except to say "God, are you there?" Although the clutter in my head kept me from listening and resting I have since found out that He has been there all along and still is as I continue on this journey called mental illness.Uncle Leshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12409622326179610286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1150528538969515282006-06-17T03:15:00.000-04:002006-06-17T03:15:00.000-04:00Many of the great theologians were undeniably gift...Many of the great theologians were undeniably gifted individuals with impressive intellectual ability. The relationship between IQ and emotional intensity has been demonstrated in the research on gifted individuals. <BR/>Experiencing these heights and depths at such intensity would surely contribute to greater questioning, deeper thought, and more powerful expression.<BR/><BR/>The struggle with depression is a fire that reveals the deepest epiphanies in the refining of faith.graciehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10548850042428168033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1150520624896661132006-06-17T01:03:00.000-04:002006-06-17T01:03:00.000-04:00i take exception to the canada comment, thunderbea...i take exception to the canada comment, thunderbeard - although i am a canadian and suffer from depression i don't consider the two related!!!<BR/><BR/>my thesis advisor likes to tell me that i suffer from a "Lutheran conscience"...<BR/><BR/>it's good to hear of other great theologians whose faith has coexisted with melancholy - one is less likely to attribute one's own dark times to lack of faith when one considers the company.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1150502980596787452006-06-16T20:09:00.000-04:002006-06-16T20:09:00.000-04:00anyone who spent time in canada would be depressed...anyone who spent time in canada would be depressed. HAHAHAHAHAHAH....i slay me...not really.thunderbeardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07640506159777958075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1150492140285784522006-06-16T17:09:00.000-04:002006-06-16T17:09:00.000-04:00I believe NT Wright suffered from depression - per...I believe NT Wright suffered from depression - perhaps during his time in Canada. Not sure about now. Happy to be corrected.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1150485550625060982006-06-16T15:19:00.000-04:002006-06-16T15:19:00.000-04:00Msgr. Romano Guardini comes up to my mind. Here is...Msgr. Romano Guardini comes up to my mind. Here is his story:<BR/><BR/>http://www.jknirp.com/center.htmAphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04226017144967122488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1150481804491149562006-06-16T14:16:00.000-04:002006-06-16T14:16:00.000-04:00With regard to Bonhoeffer, his former student and ...With regard to Bonhoeffer, his former student and biographer, E. Bethge, says that he suffered from depression (accidia, tristitia) due to some periods of self-contempt, not due to weakness, but due to weariness and on occasion at times when he was most successful. After returning to Germany in 1939 and entering the conspiracy, and particularly in prison, he never again had these experiences, because he now felt that his life of discipleship had concrete reality in action, not merely in theory. pp. 503, 833, 2000 edition.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1150473892190696552006-06-16T12:04:00.000-04:002006-06-16T12:04:00.000-04:00Writers within the Christian tradition who suffere...Writers within the Christian tradition who suffered from depression include Blake, Coleridge, Emily Dickinson, G. M. Hopkins, Tolstoy and T. S. Eliot.<BR/><BR/>Ben will know that our beloved Herman Melville was also bitten by the "black dog" (Churchill's vivid term for depression). <BR/><BR/>George Herbert, if not a depressive, certainly knew a thing or two about what he called "Affliction": "A wonder tortur'd in the space / Betwixt this world and that of grace".<BR/><BR/>And here is Coleridge in his poem "Dejection":<BR/><BR/>A grief without a pang, void, dark and drear, / A drowsy, stifled, unimpassioned grief, / Which finds no outlet or relief / In word, or sigh, or tear.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com