tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post114959675717982805..comments2024-03-25T13:40:30.747-04:00Comments on Faith and Theology: For the love of God (10): Why I love Henri de LubacBen Myershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03800127501735910966noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-84906594850165578152010-10-20T22:34:54.203-04:002010-10-20T22:34:54.203-04:00A new book has been published that convincingly ar...A new book has been published that convincingly argues that de Lubac was very wrong on exactly the point your discussing. In Natura Pura: On the Recovery of Nature in the Doctrine of Grace by Steven Long he argues that St. Thomas had a very clear notion of pure human nature and a proportional natural end. This book is well worth checking out for anyone interested in the topic. (http://www.amazon.com/Natura-Pura-Recovery-Doctrine-Philosophy/dp/0823231054/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1287628299&sr=8-1)Br. Nick, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14545496942101336649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1149703197444177262006-06-07T13:59:00.000-04:002006-06-07T13:59:00.000-04:00In addition to those listed above, I have culled t...In addition to those listed above, I have culled the following names from the <I>Communio</I> index. My selections are personal and not meant to demarcate political boundaries, by any means. As highlights, these names are not meant to be comprehensive. Also, <I>Communio</I> tends to bring together a diverse group of folks.<BR/><BR/>Msgr. Lorenzo Albacete<BR/>Fr. Julián Carrón, President of Communion and Liberation (Fr. Luigi Giussani and CL gave Communion its start in Italy)<BR/>Cardinal Carlo Caffarra<BR/>Cardinal Christoph Schonborn<BR/>Cardinal Angelo Scola<BR/>Cardinal Marc Ouellet<BR/>Cardinal Walter Kasper<BR/>Fr. Massimo Camisasca (Fraternity of St. Charles Borremeo)<BR/>Fr. Jacques Servais of the Casa Balthasar house of formation in Rome<BR/>(president of the Lubac-Balthasar-Speyr foundation)<BR/>Stratford Caldecott (Second Spring journal: Oxford, England)<BR/>Peter Casarella<BR/>David S. Crawford<BR/>Sr. Agnes Cunningham, SSCM<BR/>Marcellio D"Ambrosio<BR/>Fr. Joseph Fessio, SJ<BR/>Michael Figura <BR/>Fr. Raymond Gawronski SJ<BR/>Fr. Peter Henrici, S.J <BR/>James Hitchcock<BR/>Roch Kereszty<BR/>Janine Langan<BR/>Erasmo Leiva-Merikakis<BR/>Glenn W. Olsen<BR/>Michael Waldstein<BR/>Mark and Louise Zwick (Houston Catholic Worker)<BR/><BR/>For a complete list of authors connected with the English language edition of Communio: International Catholic Review, please see the <A HREF="http://communio-icr.com/authors/indexall.html" REL="nofollow">author's index</A><BR/><BR/>FredFredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01262662173303042998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1149698870429047852006-06-07T12:47:00.000-04:002006-06-07T12:47:00.000-04:00Kim - that is an excellent observation about RO. I...Kim - that is an excellent observation about RO. I haven't read Milbank's book on de Lubac, so I should withhold too much of a detailed comment; but I think the comment about 'openness to the world' is certainly appropriate. It's interesting that one of de Lubac's main sources, Maurice Blondel, saw modernity as an <I>opportunity</I> to regain the Catholic teaching on the natural and supernatural.<BR/><BR/>Apolonio: I concede that the debate is not closed with de Lubac's argument, but I will say that I think he's correct. Whatever one may say about Cajetan on the obediential potency (I'll not profess competence on that particular point), his genealogy of the <I>nature pura</I> is dead on, imho. That's certainly the case insofar as Aquinas is continuing in the Augustinian tradition. It's worth mentioning that Milbank might do well to attend to the rise of pure nature in Cajetan as a component of modernity alongside his attack on Scotus. And I entirely agree with your point on revelation and Balthasar's discussion with Barth.<BR/><BR/>I too could use a little clarification on <I>Communio</I> Catholics!guanilohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10713030896535359474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1149668357627872282006-06-07T04:19:00.000-04:002006-06-07T04:19:00.000-04:00Hi Deep Furrows,I wouldn't mind seeing a short lis...Hi Deep Furrows,<BR/><BR/>I wouldn't mind seeing a short list of <I>Communio</I> Catholics (sometimes called "Identity Catholics") myself! The only actual names I could mention are von Balthasar, Ratzinger, de Lubac himself and, I presume, Marion). But there must be others from the way I have seen the term used to describe one of the two main "parties" in the post conciliar debates, "parties" associated with the two RC journals <I>Communio</I> and <I>Concilium</I> (e.g. Rahner, Schillebeeckx and Küng).<BR/><BR/>In his recent <I>What Is the Point of Being a Christian?</I> (2005) Timothy Radcliffe OP discusses the divisions in a chapter called "Root Shock".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1149659034085981132006-06-07T01:43:00.000-04:002006-06-07T01:43:00.000-04:00has Radical Orthodoxy, not to mention some Communi...<I>has Radical Orthodoxy, not to mention some</I> Communio <I>Catholics, gotten cold feet about de Lubac's openness to the world?</I><BR/>Excellent question, Kim! Why not make this a post somewhere. I'd be interested to see what you mean: also, I wouldn't mind seeing a short list of <I>Communio</I> Catholics. I can think of a few off the top of my head -- David Schindler, Pope Benedict, Robin Darling Young...Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01262662173303042998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1149650184225621942006-06-06T23:16:00.000-04:002006-06-06T23:16:00.000-04:00"Attacking the neo-Thomist reification of natura p..."Attacking the neo-Thomist reification of natura pura, de Lubac argues stridently for the true Thomist and Augustinian tradition: the natural is ineluctably and irresistibly drawn toward that which it has no capacity for."<BR/><BR/>Response:<BR/>The nature/grace controversy is probably one of the exciting topics in theology the last century since it covers so many things. Balthasar saw that a mention of this debate was necessary when interacting with Barth, especially when it came to analogy. The question of what "revelation" means certainly overlaps the supernatural/natural distinction. <BR/><BR/>As for the "true Thomist" doctrine, I'm still an agnostic if de Lubac got it right. It's great that he started this debate, but we should not make a Cajetan out of him thinking that he got the right interpretation of Aquinas. McInerny believes that he misinterpreted Cajetan's doctrine on obedential potency. And Steve Long's article in the Thomist is very persuasive to me. So I think the debate continues.Aphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04226017144967122488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1149649741469727122006-06-06T23:09:00.000-04:002006-06-06T23:09:00.000-04:00Thank you for this tribute. It already helps me t...Thank you for this tribute. It already helps me to make some connexions.<BR/><BR/>1. You can see where von Balthasar got his love of the Fathers, especially Gregory of Nyssa, which von Balthasar, in turn, passed on to Marion.<BR/><BR/>2. You can also see where Radical Orthodoxy gets some of its gas, e.g. over the retrieval of traditions (its Augustinian Thomism) and its subversion of modernism, and over its deployment of the category of "participation" and its transcendence of the sacred/secular and faith/reason dualisms inherent in modernism (though has Radical Orthodoxy, not to mention some <I>Communio</I> Catholics, gotten cold feet about de Lubac's openness to the world?)<BR/><BR/>3. It strikes me that the poetry of Gerard Manley Hopkins is a brilliant vehicle for de Lubac's insights, e.g. "God's Grandeur".<BR/><BR/>Are we on the same page?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1149644960360369072006-06-06T21:49:00.000-04:002006-06-06T21:49:00.000-04:00Hey Cynthia! Josh - I linked to John's excellent s...Hey Cynthia! Josh - I linked to John's excellent series on my blog.guanilohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10713030896535359474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1149637939992396672006-06-06T19:52:00.000-04:002006-06-06T19:52:00.000-04:00a great post on important (but oft neglected) thin...a great post on important (but oft neglected) thinker. <BR/>a friend is posting on de lubac and milbank at <BR/>http://www.penniman.blogspot.com/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1149631427875027942006-06-06T18:03:00.000-04:002006-06-06T18:03:00.000-04:00An excellent post!Cheers,CynthiaAn excellent post!<BR/><BR/>Cheers,<BR/>CynthiaCynthia R. Nielsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06894348316089764851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1149625676656471632006-06-06T16:27:00.000-04:002006-06-06T16:27:00.000-04:00Thanks, friends.Thanks, friends.guanilohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10713030896535359474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1149613575737528652006-06-06T13:06:00.000-04:002006-06-06T13:06:00.000-04:00Wonderful!Wonderful!joel hunterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03680719551624473328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1149606180285102942006-06-06T11:03:00.000-04:002006-06-06T11:03:00.000-04:00Well done! De Lubac was a giant among theologians,...Well done! <BR/><BR/>De Lubac was a giant among theologians, discovering the valuable among a wide array of thinkers: Origen, Pico della Mirandola, Pascal, Teilhard -- and even Buddhism and Western atheism. His <I>Catholicism</I> reunited love of God with love of neighbor in an intensely dynamic way. Thumbing through his collection of essays, <I>Theology in History</I>, I could see so many of those themes that seemed new to the Church in the papacy of John Paul II, but were actually firmly grounded in the Christian tradition. His work was invaluable to Hans Urs von Balthasar and Luigi Giussani, and many others.Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01262662173303042998noreply@blogger.com