tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post112719847085414950..comments2024-03-25T13:40:30.747-04:00Comments on Faith and Theology: Does Scripture derive its authority from the church?Ben Myershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03800127501735910966noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-47247064435232589982011-08-15T23:02:48.889-04:002011-08-15T23:02:48.889-04:00should read: "there is no formal quality...&q...should read: "there is no formal quality..."Kenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02892679927066330908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-48022432473945743892011-08-15T23:02:48.442-04:002011-08-15T23:02:48.442-04:00...oh thats right, the church's traditional de......oh thats right, the church's traditional decleration.eddiehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00861101286245113315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1476296549163693952011-08-15T23:02:48.161-04:002011-08-15T23:02:48.161-04:00im saying that we should drop the language of auth...im saying that we should drop the language of authority, not the centrality of the bible.eddiehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00861101286245113315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1127524775326789382005-09-23T21:19:00.000-04:002005-09-23T21:19:00.000-04:00im saying that we should drop the language of auth...im saying that we should drop the language of authority, not the centrality of the bible.Eddiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00236115781570052603noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1127398431589942932005-09-22T10:13:00.000-04:002005-09-22T10:13:00.000-04:00Nope. I won't drop the word authority. The Church ...Nope. I won't drop the word authority. The Church has the Bible an, or in some cases the, authority for Christian Faith. Also, I do believe it fits the Bible quite nicely, though perhaps arguably the OT better than the NT.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1127345808592182222005-09-21T19:36:00.000-04:002005-09-21T19:36:00.000-04:00...oh thats right, the church's traditional decler......oh thats right, the church's traditional decleration.Eddiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00236115781570052603noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1127345543616580922005-09-21T19:32:00.000-04:002005-09-21T19:32:00.000-04:00We are going to encounter problems because the ter...We are going to encounter problems because the term "authority" does not naturally fit the Bible, especially the gospels as narratives. What i suggest we do is drop the langauge of authority, and find something else.<BR/><BR/>In this vein, i suggest that if the content of the scriptures is true, or if it is God addressing us, then it has a claim on our lives. This is different from talking about the 'subject-matter of scripture', because it does not seperate the subject from its scriptural presentation. This position still holds the scriptures to be the principle articulation of the truth against which all others must be tested. On what grounds this can be done, i am not sure. Any suggestions??Eddiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00236115781570052603noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1127314367868101332005-09-21T10:52:00.001-04:002005-09-21T10:52:00.001-04:00should read: "there is no formal quality..."should read: "there is no formal quality..."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1127314327908471502005-09-21T10:52:00.000-04:002005-09-21T10:52:00.000-04:00Ben: If it is merely the subject-matter that gives...Ben: If it is merely the subject-matter that gives authority to Scripture and there is formal quality of the text that distinguishes it, I see no real source for the authority of Scripture. Why are not other texts that deal with the same subject-matter authoritative? I just don't see how your argument works. At best, it works in the abstract but, so far as I can tell, your argument does not stand on anything tangible or practical.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1127305551759519162005-09-21T08:25:00.000-04:002005-09-21T08:25:00.000-04:00Scripture derives its authority from the Church wh...Scripture derives its authority from the Church which gave birth to it. It is authorized and legitimized by the Church and made meaningful in the hearts of individuals by the theopneustos of the Spirit.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16698562143972216357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1127300298723212222005-09-21T06:58:00.000-04:002005-09-21T06:58:00.000-04:00I don't know what should astonish me more, Jim: yo...I don't know what should astonish me more, Jim: your argument, or the fact that you and Ken agree about something! ;)<BR/><BR/>In any case, I think there is a sharp difference between saying that the church is <I>historically</I> the source of Scripture (which is obviously the case), and saying that the church is the source of Scripture's <I>authority</I>. If we believe that the authority of Scripture lies "outside itself" in the speaking of God, then clearly the question cannot be settled simply by an appeal to the historical source of the biblical writings.<BR/><BR/>To put this another way: if the authority of Scripture has nothing to do with the text qua text, but only with the text's <I>subject-matter</I>, then the question of the textual history of Scripture is basically irrelevant to the question of Scripture's <I>authority</I>.Ben Myershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03800127501735910966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1127275528820464052005-09-21T00:05:00.000-04:002005-09-21T00:05:00.000-04:00Hey Jim... we agree on a point, though probably fo...Hey Jim... we agree on a point, though probably for different reasons. Neat.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1127261998741046642005-09-20T20:19:00.000-04:002005-09-20T20:19:00.000-04:00So how can we hear God's voice in the scripture? W...So how can we hear God's voice in the scripture? What are we listening for?existentialisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18121706260786532883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1127259196882926592005-09-20T19:33:00.000-04:002005-09-20T19:33:00.000-04:00Hello Ben-fact is, the Church gave birth to the Sc...Hello Ben-<BR/>fact is, the Church gave birth to the Scriptures, Scripture did not give birth to the Church. Thus, the Church is prior to Scripture and therefore the font of Scripture.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16698562143972216357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14261952.post-1127258513928368662005-09-20T19:21:00.000-04:002005-09-20T19:21:00.000-04:00I don't think that's what's being done, Ben. The a...I don't think that's what's being done, Ben. <BR/><BR/>The authority of the Church rests on its inspiration by the Spirit. Those apostles and prophets are the Church; that is, the Church is the historic community of those who are saved. It is the unity of believers, seeking and praying and inspired by the Spirit, that establishes canon, that establishes doctrine, and which witnesses to God and Christ Jesus; in essence, the Church doing precisely what you say in the second last paragraph and the first half of the last (which I agree with wholeheartedly). To betray the Church's historic role as trustee of the divine revelation, dehistoricizes theology and thus makes it no better the philosphical musings of any individual human being. And, I think you end up where you trying not to be, namely at a formal definition of the inspiration of Scripture.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com